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Selective delete in windchill 10

rrich
2-Guest

Selective delete in windchill 10


Ok so this was possible in ILINK3.4 how do you do it in WC10. See picture below. I would like to delete 8010-120_mfg.asm version A.1 from the data base. Unfortunately I cannot I can delete A.4 through A.1. Purge is not the answer. I do not want to delete from A.1 through A.3 and leave only A.4 I would like to selectively delete these items from the database.

Ron


[cid:image001.png@01CDBC07.911FDD70]
27 REPLIES 27
TomU
23-Emerald IV
(To:rrich)

Welcome to Windchill. No can do. No selective delete. No purge selective revisions. No delete everything but the latest X versions. You have two options. You can delete everything from the latest backwards using the "Delete" function or you can use Purge and never get rid of the last iteration of each revision (A.4 and B.1 below).

Tom U.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Windchill.


As you have discoverred, you can only delete the latest version, or all iterations of the latest revision.


Gerry Champoux
Williams International
Walled Lake, MI

In Reply to Ron Rich:



Ok so this was possible in ILINK3.4 how do you do it in WC10. See picture below. I would like to delete 8010-120_mfg.asm version A.1 from the data base. Unfortunately I cannot I can delete A.4 through A.1. Purge is not the answer. I do not want to delete from A.1 through A.3 and leave only A.4 I would like to selectively delete these items from the database.

rrich
2-Guest
(To:rrich)

I hate progress. Give me back my .7HB pencil and let me make drawings.

Ron
jkent
3-Visitor
(To:rrich)

Only way I know of doing this is using the wctk DeleteObjects. You can specify a specific Revision and Iteration in a csv file and run the tool.

Here is the patch.
10.0-M0X0_WCTK_2.0 Windchill Toolkit [Seq 05]

[cid:image002.png@01CDBC1E.C95DC960]

Joe Kent
Engineering Systems Administrator
R&D/Leverage(tm)
Structural Brand Development / Mold Manufacturing
"With Us, Ideas Take Shape"

Tel: 816-525-0353 x6527

www.rdleverage.com<">http://www.rdleverage.com>
Innovations in packaging design!
Innovations in mold manufacturing!
Learn more here www.rdleverage.com<">http://www.rdleverage.com>
amedina
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

Intralink 3.4 is a pretend PDM. we pretend we release something then we go
back and delete it and replace it with something better.

windchill is a real PDM. You release something and that's it, there is no
going back to cleanup the trail... especially if you waited several months
to discover something. so what do you do if you need to delete rev A and
rev B is already released? just roll back every single linked item to all
A.X revisions and then delete one at a time as required, then redo all the
work. Or go to C with rev A.4 as the start point then go to rev D with rev
B as the start point. Hey if A is already in someone's hand as paper,
forget about deleting it from your db.


Has anyone ever received this toolkit deletion patch for Windchill 9.1, and willing to share it?
I've requested it from PTC, but they are stonewalling me.



Gerry Champoux
Williams International
Walled Lake, MI


In Reply to Joe Kent:


Only way I know of doing this is using the wctk DeleteObjects. You can specify a specific Revision and Iteration in a csv file and run the tool.

Here is the patch.
10.0-M0X0_WCTK_2.0 Windchill Toolkit [Seq 05]

[cid:image002.png@01CDBC1E.C95DC960]

Joe Kent
Engineering Systems Administrator
R&D/Leverage(tm)
Structural Brand Development / Mold Manufacturing
"With Us, Ideas Take Shape"

Tel: 816-525-0353 x6527

www.rdleverage.com<
Innovations in packaging design!
Innovations in mold manufacturing!
Learn more here www.rdleverage.com<

I couldn't say better. Thanks, Aome.

Met vriendelijke groeten, best Regards,

Hugo.

Can't argue with that.


But what about deleting unreleased objects?
Windchill still does not allow such.

Simple example:
User inadvertantly rolls the revision of a model to the next letter.
Weeks go by before anyone notices.
By this time, many iterations have been checked-in, but nothing released.
Once notified, I (the admin) try to delete them. Normally, I should be able to do so. (all iterations of latest rev)
However, the model is now in use any many assemblies.
Windchill won't allow me to delete the revision of the model (a part) because it is in use.
Some would say that if I were allowed to delete the model, those assemblies will fail to regenerate.
Yes! That's exactly what I want to have happen, so that the designers will know they need to fix their assemblies with the same model at correct revision.


In short: Deleting stuff like this should be allowed for the admin.


Gerry Champoux
Williams International
Walled Lake, MI


In Reply to alfonso medina:


Intralink 3.4 is a pretend PDM. we pretend we release something then we go
back and delete it and replace it with something better.

windchill is a real PDM. You release something and that's it, there is no
going back to cleanup the trail... especially if you waited several months
to discover something. so what do you do if you need to delete rev A and
rev B is already released? just roll back every single linked item to all
A.X revisions and then delete one at a time as required, then redo all the
work. Or go to C with rev A.4 as the start point then go to rev D with rev
B as the start point. Hey if A is already in someone's hand as paper,
forget about deleting it from your db.


jnelson
13-Aquamarine
(To:rrich)

Windchill is a real WHAT?
Please tell me you are joking?

PDM, whether it is INTRALINK or something else, is supposed to be a value added tool, and a tool should NEVER prevent me from performing an action that I think and/or know is best.
A tool that I use should NEVER tell me what is right and/or wrong, it should only do what I want and need it to do.

It is me as the user that needs to know what is right/wrong and have the knowledge to being using, otherwise, me as a user has to deal with the consequences.


STEVEG
21-Topaz I
(To:rrich)

Over the years one of the things we stress to our users is that the BOM report of the assembly they are working on MUST be at a released state if it's not on their ECN.

So if 123.prt is in an assembly they are working on and the .prt is version 2.2 at In Work but it's not on their ECN then they MUST use the last Production Released version of revision 1.

We know we can't make this 100% full-proof but we have been able to limit any problems because of that. We also know there are exceptions but they are rare.

This may not work for everyone but for us it does.

Steve G

I would question why one would need to bother with this at all.


If it's not the released version, who cares?


(And if it is the released version, why would one want to delete a released file? That's seeking out unnecessary trouble.)


If it's not the latest, engineering won't be working on it anyway.


Those people that should only be viewing the latest can be restricted to only view the latest.


If the older version is somehow a problem, it's superceded by the newer file and can be ignored.


Disk space is not so expensive that a single iteration of a file is going to matter.

ddemay
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

PDM tools are not artificial intelligence software. SharePoint works great for this as does other content management systems when a company or individuals do not want to adapt.

I disagree, users are not smart. They make regretful mistakes and software should prevent you from making regretful mistakes; no matter how strong you feel about the decision at the time.

Consequence is your result true, but omits more about the business notion of squeezing more productivity and quality out of each head count. The cost for your license to use the software is a fairly cheap insurance policy. Pay raises can also be coorelated to this.

The problem isn't the functionality; rather the inability or the lack of incentive to ship a complete product. All software is released and phased this way. Somewhere along the way folks became accepting of this tenet.

I will say one thing. The user interface is more flexible in 10, but it has room to be more flexible in 11 and 12.



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone"Nelson, Joel" <-> wrote:Windchill is a real WHAT?
Please tell me you are joking?

PDM, whether it is INTRALINK or something else, is supposed to be a value added tool, and a tool should NEVER prevent me from performing an action that I think and/or know is best.
A tool that I use should NEVER tell me what is right and/or wrong, it should only do what I want and need it to do.

It is me as the user that needs to know what is right/wrong and have the knowledge to being using, otherwise, me as a user has to deal with the consequences.


amedina
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

I'm currently admin on a 3.4 install and I like it. Its fine and does what
it was meant to do. (But its dying out in all ways, support, time out
issues, people who know it, users etc.) The CO and other change management
workflows are done on a separate database. Windchill, Team center and
Agile EC all try to merge these two and many other tools as a swiss army
knife for business. The problem being that I never use a swiss army knife
to torque down the heads on my engines. Its always some special tool that
is specifically made for that.

But that's a bad comparison. Software is software and it will do what its
programmed to do, no matter how you package it. The patch is probably a
java plugin with a direct SQL command that bypasses the PDM system and
"dangerously" changes stuff in the database. You can do that by hand, but
its an illusion. And think of the fun you will have later when your
automated migration tool does not take into account some missing data. Fun
times!

To think that deleting A.1 will bring back all the copies of it from emails
in gmail and hard copies and such is an illusion. There are better ways to
use SQL and most of them should be read only for reporting. (in our pdm is
glory case. Oracle guys can hack a database all day long)

So this PDMlink thing, the way it was made to work, will link assemblies,
change notices, emails, comments, pictures etc to a specific
iteration/version of a revision.

rev A.1 and rev A.8 will look completely different. So the stuff attached
to A.1 cannot be reconciliated to use A.8. That is why you must un-link it
first. Its a house of cards.

There are many other ways they could have written PDMlink. Hoever, its out
there now, so if they corrected such a fundamental thing as the way things
are linked to each other, it would take them a long time to make more
profit. imagine having to migrate on each upgrade. Its bad. People loose
data too. its not good for business to correct or re-do the logic of how
you handle the data.

hey go vote, stop reading, there is tomorrow for that.




Lohbauer
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

This thread is referring to specifically to 10.x but in 9.1 I am experiencing a similar situation. We have a part that was revised and iterated but then it was decided to obsolete the part altogether. Our Document control would prefer to delete the WIP iterations back to the last release. We received errors citing 'Build rules violations' in the failed attempt.


If deleting is not the best practice then what is to be done with the WIP iterations when the part is obsoleted? Or, since its not released, Who cares??? This is more of aBusiness admin questionthan system admin.


Sorry to coopt this thread.


Best,


Bob Lohbauer




In Reply to alfonso medina:


I'm currently admin on a 3.4 install and I like it. Its fine and does what
it was meant to do. (But its dying out in all ways, support, time out
issues, people who know it, users etc.) The CO and other change management
workflows are done on a separate database. Windchill, Team center and
Agile EC all try to merge these two and many other tools as a swiss army
knife for business. The problem being that I never use a swiss army knife
to torque down the heads on my engines. Its always some special tool that
is specifically made for that.

But that's a bad comparison. Software is software and it will do what its
programmed to do, no matter how you package it. The patch is probably a
java plugin with a direct SQL command that bypasses the PDM system and
"dangerously" changes stuff in the database. You can do that by hand, but
its an illusion. And think of the fun you will have later when your
automated migration tool does not take into account some missing data. Fun
times!

To think that deleting A.1 will bring back all the copies of it from emails
in gmail and hard copies and such is an illusion. There are better ways to
use SQL and most of them should be read only for reporting. (in our pdm is
glory case. Oracle guys can hack a database all day long)

So this PDMlink thing, the way it was made to work, will link assemblies,
change notices, emails, comments, pictures etc to a specific
iteration/version of a revision.

rev A.1 and rev A.8 will look completely different. So the stuff attached
to A.1 cannot be reconciliated to use A.8. That is why you must un-link it
first. Its a house of cards.

There are many other ways they could have written PDMlink. Hoever, its out
there now, so if they corrected such a fundamental thing as the way things
are linked to each other, it would take them a long time to make more
profit. imagine having to migrate on each upgrade. Its bad. People loose
data too. its not good for business to correct or re-do the logic of how
you handle the data.

hey go vote, stop reading, there is tomorrow for that.




Typically, I would suggest that non-engineering personnel shouldn’t have access to non released parts. If it’s WIP, only engineering has access.


If there are other departments that need to see parts that are not released yet (like purchasing dept for long lead-time items), there should be a separate life-cycle state the files can be changed into to give those people access.


Now, the problem with leaving the WIP objects in place becomes when a future revision takes place. You can’t really rely on every engineer to remember that one item at WIP should not be used. The solution is more involved.


The first solution to try is to delete the newer iterations back to the released version, which you've already tried.


After that, I would open the released version (part/assembly and drawing), then update my workspace. When prompted to update the work in session, pick NO. Check out the offending files (again, part/assembly and drawing) while in your workspace. Now when you save the files in session (the released files), you'll overwrite the "bad" files with the latest released version. Check in, put a comment into the check in field explaining what you did, and leave it at that.


In this way, in the future when an engineer searches for that file, they will see the WIP version, but it will match the released version, rather than all the changes that are now obsolete.



There may be other ways to get around this, like involving tech support, where you can sort through all these build rules violations. I've simply never taken the time to research it further due to how quick the above method usually ends up being. It's really up to you to decide which is the best for your organization.



In Reply to Bob Lohbauer:



This thread is referring to specifically to 10.x but in 9.1 I am experiencing a similar situation. We have a part that was revised and iterated but then it was decided to obsolete the part altogether. Our Document control would prefer to delete the WIP iterations back to the last release. We received errors citing 'Build rules violations' in the failed attempt.


If deleting is not the best practice then what is to be done with the WIP iterations when the part is obsoleted? Or, since its not released, Who cares??? This is more of aBusiness admin questionthan system admin.


Sorry to coopt this thread.


Best,


Bob Lohbauer




If this is true, you would never use software or most products in the market.


Every software is limited to what it can do as a tool. I can't program it on the fly to allow me to do what I want and how I want.


If I wanted to use my lawnmower to trim the bushes and also as an edger, just because it's not possible does not mean the mower is useless. I should not be able to use the mower for something it was not designed to do. 🙂


You may not like how Windchill restricts you but it may be designed to do so for a purpose. Not saying this is true all the time, but I don't think software should allow me to do everything I want to do and how I want to do it.


🙂



In Reply to Joel Nelson:


Windchill is a real WHAT?
Please tell me you are joking?

PDM, whether it is INTRALINK or something else, is supposed to be a value added tool, and a tool should NEVER prevent me from performing an action that I think and/or know is best.
A tool that I use should NEVER tell me what is right and/or wrong, it should only do what I want and need it to do.

It is me as the user that needs to know what is right/wrong and have the knowledge to being using, otherwise, me as a user has to deal with the consequences.







"Too many people walk around like Clark Kent, because they don't realize they can Fly like Superman"

jnelson
13-Aquamarine
(To:rrich)

Damian
Then I respectfully disagree, and that is fine cause I sure there some out there that think and/or agree with you, and I sure there are some people out there that think Windchill is "perfect".

I don't.

IN MY OPINION! I am sure I will get blasted for some of this, and I know not everyone is going to agree, so I say it again...IN MY OPINION


A value added tool:

1. for PDM (CAD Data Management)

2. for Engineering access and usage only (primarily)

3. that is not I.T and or business/corporate sponsored and/or supported

4. managing a Small Business and/or small (satellite) deployment (50 users or less)

That is not Windchill (PDMLink), at least not the way it currently exist. However, PRO/INTRALINK 3.x, was (still is here) and always be the tool I listed above, and that is what I am comparing too.

As for your lawnmower reference....well you know, if someone is purchasing a lawnmower expecting to trim brushes and/or do edging, then I would say that there competency of product comparison/evaluation; along with their trust in sales people, and the integrity of the sales person would all come into question. However, technically I believe to some degree trimming bushes is possible (if you can lift the mower), and I never tried, but I bet if I was able to tilt the mower to a certain degree I would be able to do some sort of edging. It may not be the easiest and/or prettiest job, it may not be the recommend way, and I may hurt myself in the long run, but the tool does not prevent it, and I would have to deal with the consequences.
Which is to my point, a Tool should not prevent me, and if it does then there needs to be a work around, otherwise I purchased the wrong tool.


PDM, and that is ALL that I am referring too, is a TOOL to vault CAD files.
In the recent years with the emersion of PLM (Windchill being one), vendors have lost and/or forgotten about PDM (ONLY) as a standalone tool, and I can say this with relative confidence because since January 2011 90% of my time has been spent researching PDM availability and evaluating products for replacing PRO/INTRALINK 3.4. At the same time, I can say with relative confidence, that Small Business Customers (such as myself), that do not need or care about PLM products, feel forgotten and/or ignored by vendors with no "downsized" PDM (ONLY) version of what they offer (PLM) to the larger customer base.
I already have pre-existing products for PLM/ERP/etc., etc.. and these are NOT going to be replaced.

So with these already in place, and since Engineering is responsible for PDM/CAD Data Management, please tell me how what I am referring to is NOT a TOOL, and NOT A TOOL that should able to do what I want and when I want. Of course, there are the obvious User/ADMIN settings as a check and balance, but I think you get my point...? I do not want too, and typically do not have the time and/resources, to customize an overcomplicated & overwhelming product like Windchill, much less deal with the performance issues, just to do CAD Data Management. And, there is NO WAY that I am going to pay someone to come in (GSO/VAR) and charge MEGA $$$ for setup, especially when it is not company/corporate sponsored and cannot do what I want/need (like INTRALINK 3.4).


Again, this is my opinion. I am not trying to cause any friction and/or additional debates of PDM vs. PLM or what is the "right" way for one company that is not the "right" way for another....
I just want a TOOL that lets me do it my way....or your way, or someone else's way...





Sorry for the rant....too much Red Bull late in the day



Lohbauer
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

Joel,

No blast here, but I will agree with Damian. To your point; if you can show me someone who thinks Windchill is perfect I can show you a functional lunatic.

It’s not perfect and it is not intuitive. But if you can figure out how it works and figure out what you need it to do for you it will work for you.

Bob Lohbauer

Maybe it's just me. I'm still having trouble understanding why we care about some random iteration in the middle of a series of iterations that we want to keep.


A.1 --> A.12 (final one Released)


B.1 --> B.12 (final one Released)


C.1 --> C.12 (all at WIP)


If I'm understanding correctly, the origianl request is to delete something like C.3.


Why?


Who cares that it exists?


It's not the released file being used for production.


It's not the latest of Rev C, so engineering won't be using it for new design changes.


The whole request seems rather like a random nitpick.


(There have been explanation for needing to delete all of Rev C (iterations 1 through 12) and the system restricting that deletion. This I understand; a revision is requested then sometime later that request is rescinded.)



In Reply to Joel Nelson:


...especially when it is not company/corporate sponsored and cannot do what I want/need (like INTRALINK 3.4).
mreece
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

Whether you understand why or who cares is irrelevant. Whether you want to remove it for legal reasons of for other maintenance reasons, I should be able to remove that object.

If removing the object is doing something unreasonable to the dataset, Windchill should warn me, but if I have sufficient permissions, it should not stop me from removing C.3

I've been following this and I'm definitely in Don's camp on this.



Our current third party PDM (our solution is not really a PLM) does NOT
allow for ANY iteration deletion, and that IS the way that we want it.
Iterations in the middle are just history, and they are in there. They
don't hurt anything, except maybe making your database bigger. You do NOT
have to use them.



With all of that being said, I'm no expert on WC, and in fact we are
currently working towards our WC test bed setup.



But I have two comments in general.



1) PTC did this intentionally: I think that it's a distinct
possibility that PTC realized that they way that we WERE doing it in
Intralink by allowing iterative deletion was NOT a good idea. I have to
wonder if they weren't getting complaints from people (admins) that were
deleting things, and screwing things up, so they just took the
functionality away. As was stated earlier in this thread, you have to be
very very careful when you start deleting iterations, as it could cause
other things to fail. Even though you think that you are doing the right
thing, there could be something that you didn't account for. PDM IS all
inter-twined together, and it IS a huge jigsaw puzzle, and deleting one
seemingly insignificant piece could have dire consequences that you don't
see coming

2) Swiss army knife PLM: It's important to understand that WC is NOT
just PDM anymore, like Intralink, it's PLM. This is actually one of the
things that we LIKE about WC, and one of the reasons that we are
considering moving towards WC. For US ,and I realize that YMMV, we want
to have as much knowledge in ONE location as we can possibly get in said
location. Is that not the definition of PLM? It sure feels like this
should ultimately make us more efficient corporately, because we wouldn't
need to maintain several systems, and we would only need to train everyone
on ONE system, that being WC. But, as was stated earlier, you have to
realize that while it will do everything, it may not do all things the
best, and at the end of the day, that's OK, because the trade off is that
you get ALL information to a common point of entry / exit, and that far
outweighs, in our opinion, the maintenance involved with multiple systems.
For us, we have an ERP system. It sucks at some things, and some things
it's better at. For the things that it sucks at, we often have
work-arounds that are outside the system, and those work-arounds cause us
more headaches than they solve. They're complicated, and they are
somewhere else, so you have to leave ERP to find that answer. That is NOT
a total solution. The holy grail of PLM, I think, is to have ALL systems
tied together in one place that either share a common database, or at the
minimum can read from different databases if different functions are
controlled by different programs. If you've been to conference over the
last couple of years, I think that it's very very obvious that this is the
way that PTC is going with their PLM. They are trying to get as many of
these systems tied together as is possible, and I don't think that's a bad
thing. I also think that it's a matter of time before has, acquires, or
is ACQUIRED by an ERP vendor. At that point, think about how powerful WC
would be IF it was a one stop - do all ENTERPRISE wide system PRODUCT
LIFECYCLE MANAGEMENT system.



There was a post on here recently about which should drive which, PLM vs.
ERP, or ERP vs. PLM. The argument was made that PLM should drive
EVERYTHING, and I think for some that makes sense. I think that the rub
with WC, to Joel's point, is that this is the way for some companies, but
for some, especially smaller ones, this may not be the way that they want
to go, and I can definitely see where a smaller company could see WC as
way to much complication. So, while WC may be the Swiss army knife of
PLM's (or attempting to be), some users only want a pocket knife, and from
PTC, they don't have any options. That is a very valid argument as well.


I single iteration in the middle of a sequence has to be deleted for legal reasons? I'm not touching that with a 10-foot pole.


When you try to delete that iteration and windchill forbids it, well, there's your warning not to delete it.

In Reply to Michael Reece:


Whether you understand why or who cares is irrelevant. Whether you want to remove it for legal reasons of for other maintenance reasons, I should be able to remove that object.

If removing the object is doing something unreasonable to the dataset, Windchill should warn me, but if I have sufficient permissions, it should not stop me from removing C.3

So, with all of the response to this I think it is clear that we all have very different ways that we need WC to work. I for one really did like the ability to delete selected iterations in 3.4 and that was a major pain point when moving to WC 9.1, but we had to learn to deal with it or work around it.

Deleting selected iterations is all well and good as long as you are always dealing with the LATEST versions of files. So on a typical day for most of us we want to use or edit the latest version of a part, assembly, or drawing. However, what about when we go back and look at files as they were stored or as they existed just before release? Deleting selected iterations would, just as it did in 3.4, indiscriminately remove iterations from the database and any transaction records. Not typically acceptable for a PLM as a system of record or a system that is intended to link to non-CAD data or tie in with other systems.

I personally would like to see that ability back on a limited basis in WC, BUT not until there is an acceptable way of dealing with the links that you are breaking. For those wanting WC as a simple PDM and willing to fix everything that breaks after the fact like in Intralink, simply allow unrestrained deletion of CAD files. (Would have loved that a few years ago.) But for those that need to be very cautious with the links and references to other files, iterations, and records, give us a way to handle the missing iterations such as automatic rollback to the previous iteration, selection of a replacement iteration, or removal/isolation of the object with a flag on any recorded references to that deleted iteration so that the object appears to be deleted but references to it indicate the deleted iteration. And record the deletion of the object in WC so that I can audit object deletion and see the affected items and records before and after the fact.

Just my 2,
John Frankovich

So, since I'm WC illiterate, can I offer an idea about how we would handle
this situation:



"However, what about when we go back and look at files as they were stored
or as they existed just before release?"



Our CURRENT PDM will not do this either, BUT we have a need to go back to
prior revs at points. What we do is go and get that prior rev the way
that we want it, verifying that it's correct, and saving it off somewhere
in a safe location. Then, we check out the LATEST version from our PDM,
and delete those files off of disk. We call up the PRIOR version that
have saved off somewhere, and check that back into our PDM. Now, we're
back a revision, AND we still have the history that we went forward, and
then decided that we would go back. Yes, this is somewhat of a pain, but
I guess that our take on it is that some day in the future, we may really
like to know that we changed the design but decided to go back. If we
were to delete the LAST revision, we would lose that history.



Iterations to us are history. It seems like a bad thing to delete
history.




You have the following:


1- Massive Relational Database structure with links to everything (Change Models, Promotion Requests, Secondary Content, Multiple Visualization files for each object, IBAs, etc)

2- CAD Models with parametric information that is also managed, controlled and protected by the database/Windchill

3- All history is meticulously maintained automatically

4- All data integrity is maintained including rename operations etc.

5- All CAD Models are stored with an As-Stored configuration automatically (a baseline) that can be referenced at any point in time to see EXACTLY how a model was built, rev for rev, 15 years ago.

You don't have:

1- The ability to delete a historical revision very easily



[cid:image002.gif@01CDBDBB.E9DC5F00]

Steve Vinyard
Application Engineer
Not applicable
(To:rrich)

If the iteration has no links to anything else (highly unlikely), then
I'm pretty sure you can delete it (as admin). (Been a long time since
I've done so).



More directly/importantly though, when I've been asked this question in
the past, my response has always been to ask why you want to delete old
iterations?



Typically the answer comes down to wanting a "clean database". i.e. some
attempt to keep the house clean so guests don't see how messy life is
(can be). Or about file server space.



Having a clean house can be done with states, upon release, set all the
in work stuff to history (or similar) and only let admins or such see
history items.



File space should not really be an issue, the incremental cost for data
storage in a well configured datacenter is very inexpensive (less than
$1000/TB).



The only issue IMO is in database/metadata/table size. And here, Oracle
has solutions for extremely large databases (larger than I've ever had
to worry about). So may require more Oracle expertise than we normally
use in the WC world, but I'm confident it is manageable.



As for legal questions, I'm involved in two federal cases as an expert
witness, and if missing files (intermediate iterations) are not there,
it causes questions and problems in the legal world. Missing iterations
cause concerns from both legal parties, even if explained as clean-up
etc. Now, if the database contains files that were illegally obtained,
there is a lot more that needs to be done than just deleting the native
file and no application should allow such to be done through any user
interface.



~Dan







Dan Harlan
Mechanical Engineer / CAD Administrator
480.940.0036 x178 Office
480.940.0039 Facsimile



481 N. Dean Avenue
Chandler, AZ 85226
dharlan@aitint.com
www.aitint.com






kbrault1
1-Newbie
(To:rrich)

Good response Dan (I've known Dan since his days at the Nixon administration).

Kevin Brault
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