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WC Name as object description

sjohnson-3
4-Participant

WC Name as object description

We currently have a Creo string parameter DESCRIPTION that is designated in Winchill for our part and assembly drawing descriptions. I'm under the impression many organizations are using Windchill NAME for part and assembly descriptions. Does anybody have any experience with this and input on pros/cons?

Our filename and number are already set up to be synced automatically. It seems to me if we could use name as our description then searches would be tons easier not to mention save-as, table views, ...

Should this be an ideal way to go does anybody have a tool/robot of some kind that would run overnight to automatically modify all objects' names to the value from the existing designated object parameter?


Sasha Johnson
Sr. Design Engineer
[Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CB6B8D.783AA0A0]
Russ Bassett Corporation
8189 Byron Road
Whittier, CA 90606
Phone 800-350-2445 X 3345
Fax 562-447-2228
sjohnson@russbassett.com<">mailto:tsimon@russbassett.com>
www.russbassett.com
14 REPLIES 14
TomU
23-Emerald IV
(To:sjohnson-3)

I'm interested to see what responses you get.

One thing to consider, the Creo 'DESCRIPTION' parameter is versioned, 'Name' is not. (Just like 'filename' and 'number' are not.) That means you could change the description from one release to the next if you need to. Since 'Name' is NOT versioned, any change to it will affect ALL versions of the object, even historical ones. This means the data displayed on a drawing could change if you republished again in the future. Also, 'Name' will not be able to be changed by anyone other than an administrator once the object is released. (Assuming you're changing the lifecycle state through some type of release process.)

Tom U.
sjohnson-3
4-Participant
(To:sjohnson-3)

Thanks Tom! I didn't consider the version ramification but that's actually not a bad thing (I think).

-Sasha

When I first arrived here I'd guestimate that WC NAME was identical to FILE NAME and NUMBER for 99% of our files.

Since that time I've been stressing to my users that upon file creation they should fill out the Name in Creo to match the title block. This pushes the description entered into the WC NAME columns upon check in. I also have them put the title block description into the WC NAME column when performing a Save As in WC.

So far, the benefits have far outweighed the problems encountered. That's been pretty easy bar to exceed because the only problem I've encountered is getting users to put in the same WC NAME as is seen in the drawing title block. (That's not a technology problem; that's a personnel problem.)

Though we don't do it, I know it's also possible to push the WC NAME to fill out the DRW/PRT/ASM parameter (DESCRIPTION in your case) using relations. To get the relations into all files I would probably first look into some sort of batch application of ModelCHECK.


I am still thinking about versioned factor.


Ayyappan

No thanks Ron. ModelCHECK already does that.

(Also, sales pitch spam on the exploder?)

Sasha:


Our system was set up to make WC Name, WC filename and WC NUMBER the same by default, which I believe is a quite common implementation. Afterwe finally realized what the "Common Name" was for and how it related to Pro/E / Creo files and Windchill we decided to use WC Name as the description(I feel that PTC never properly explained what "Common Name" was for when it suddenly appeared some years back).


When we started to use WC Name we just started copyingthe value from a filebased attribute on legacy files, but the attribute frequently was incorrect for various reasons (copying parts and not changing it, overtyping the parameter with text in the drawing format, etc.) and since one of the goals of using WC Name was to clearly indicate what the object was, we had to come up with a formal naming convention document, since we never had one before.


Even the values of the old description parameters that were supposedly "correct" were all over the place, from very clear to chock full of meaningless acronyms that made no sense to anyone, even the originators. This made it diffcult to determine what you were actually looking at, at a glance.


We couldn't use a tool to copy values because of the inconsistency so in order to move forward we have enforced it on all new objects and during revisions to exisiting ones. In addition, we have gone back through released active legacy objects and have renamed many of them on a product by product basis as well. Since we started in January 2011 we have just over 73,000 of just under 93,000 objects using WC Name which is about 79%. The renaming tool in Windchill could be better, but it has been flexible enough to help us using wildcards so that we were able to rename lots of objects in one operation (e.g. by assembly or by family).


For us, the fact that the WC Name is not versioned actually works better for us because once we establish the "proper" name, we can identify all versions easily.We can always find out what it was named when the object was released by looking at the old parameter values.


The immediate benefit is that all the out-of-the-box views now become useful particularly the Structure (BOMs), Related Objects and Family views we use. Search results are instantly readable. Although this can also be done using your own attributes, this is easier since it's baked into the system defaults already.


(Creo's use of "Name" and "Common Name" in the new file command is a constant source of confusion to new users when youhave to explain that Creo Name = WC filename, Creo Common Name = WC Name and WC Number is something else entirely. It doesn't seem very well thought out.)


We've determined that you need to enforce your naming conventions as part of the Release process if you want consistency. In practice this hasn't been a big deal and has been more of a user habit issue than anything else: most of our users aren't too concerned what to call something anyway, so if you say its got to be a certain way, they don't usually have an issue with it.


Andrew Mansfield


KI


Green Bay, WI

In Reply to Sasha Johnson:


We currently have a Creo string parameter DESCRIPTION that is designated in Winchill for our part and assembly drawing descriptions. I'm under the impression many organizations are using Windchill NAME for part and assembly descriptions. Does anybody have any experience with this and input on pros/cons?

Our filename and number are already set up to be synced automatically. It seems to me if we could use name as our description then searches would be tons easier not to mention save-as, table views, ...

Should this be an ideal way to go does anybody have a tool/robot of some kind that would run overnight to automatically modify all objects' names to the value from the existing designated object parameter?


Sasha Johnson
Sr. Design Engineer
[Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CB6B8D.783AA0A0]
Russ Bassett Corporation
8189 Byron Road
Whittier, CA 90606
Phone 800-350-2445 X 3345
Fax 562-447-2228
sjohnson@russbassett.com<
www.russbassett.comhttp://www.russbassett.com

Hi Sasha, if you have an existing parameter that is already mapped into Windchill, I could get a senior guy to work with you on having a custom script built to cycle through Windchill and update all Name values with whatever the other parameter currently is. Most of the team is booked pretty solid at the moment though if you can be flexible we could work something out. My only initial concern would be that you don't have a Dev system with which we could test on. This is almost always something that should be tested first.


Regards,
[cid:image001.gif@01CFCB30.A000F600]

Stephen Vinyard
Director of Customer Success
sjohnson-3
4-Participant
(To:sjohnson-3)

Thanks Andrew! The benefits you are seeing on searches is exactly what we are looking for, as well as other advantages. Our Description parameter is well maintained thankfully. We are constantly enforcing logical description naming conventions here - there are rare cases where they aren't consistent, but for the most part they are solid.

Steve, yes we definitely want to pursue a script to update all Name values with the current Description parameter value. We can work on timing when you guys get some breathing room from your workload. We'll have to talk more about our lack of a test environment.


Sasha Johnson
Sr. Design Engineer
[Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CB6B8D.783AA0A0]
Russ Bassett Corporation
8189 Byron Road
Whittier, CA 90606
Phone 800-350-2445 X 3345
Fax 562-447-2228
sjohnson@russbassett.com<">mailto:tsimon@russbassett.com>
www.russbassett.com

Many systems seem to use Name same as Number.



Seems not so convenient:

Number = 000123423 (could be auto or manual)

Name = 000123423



Seems to be much more convenient:

Number = 000123423 (could be auto or manual)

Name - Bracket,Panel,Left,Lower



Might be that people don't fill in the "Common Name" in the Creo UI. See
attached screen captures (Visio file, also saved as PDF if you don't have
Visio) for the mapping.



Description definitely can be used but it's not as conveniently displayed
most places as Name.



Don't know that I've ever seen PTC fully document this mapping but likely
they have and I just haven't seen it - if it is documented, please point out
where.



thanks in advance


I may be missing something but it may be as simple as copying the
Description from the latest Version of each CAD Doc to the Name for the
Master - directly in the database. Always have to be super careful doing
this but may be ok w/enough prep and test.



Might be something like this:

SQL> Update epmdocumentmaster Set CADNAME = (Select epmdocument.DESCRIPTION
From epmdocument)



Above doesn't include finding the latest version - not sure how to address
that.




The primary reason we have the Name, Number, & Filename the same is because PTC decided to show name in the Creo search results. (Model Tree area search)
[cid:image001.png@01CFD707.93DE5C40]

What I really want to see here is the filename, but you can't change what column is displayed.

Now in 9.1 that wasn't a huge deal because you always got the search results in the embedded browser also, where you can customize the display.
In 10.x if you use the embedded browser to do a search, and later come back to this search, the link to the embedded browser is broken and it just displays a blank page.
To fix this you have to browse to another folder, and then do your search again.

There is an SPR on this behavior but currently PTC has no plans to fix it.

Bottom line, if PTC would just change the Creo search so it returned the filename, instead of the name, then I could see making Name, Number, & Filename unique.
Creo users are primary concerned with the Filename, Name and Number are just nice extra information.

David Haigh

I see the problem: we never use the Windchill Search inside Creo so this hasn't been an issue for us.

But you're right that this is a rather stupid implementation where you a search on a filename but get the Common Name back in the results..

[cid:image002.png@01CFD724.310920B0]

Andrew Mansfield | CAD Support & PDM Manager
Work 920.468.2167 | Mobile 920.619.7363
Email -<">mailto:-> | Web ki.com

This is on Windchill objects.


It looks like sql script shown by Mike is straight forward to me. I agree that how to determine which version of (I assume latest version) epmdocument description will be considered to copy to master attribute cad name.


At the same time, it is good to think about the some more details of attribute definition.


Attribute Column Name ---> Display Name --> Upper limit --> Constriant


CADNAME -->DESCRIPTION --> description --> 4000


If we explore Windchill API for EPMDocument, one can notice that epmdocument.getCADName() and epmdocument.getDescription() and set methods on same attributes. As we know that the CADName is not stored in epmdocument table and it is on master table and description gets stored in epmdocument table. So I think it is not a bad idea of exploring API way of updating CADName. Since one no need to worry about what happens when epmdocument.setCADName("xyz.drw") getting executed and API call going to take care of updating right table. I would like to see if people here have different opinion.


You can talk to TS using the following tool in your scenario. May be a custom version of this tool can help.


The TypeAttributeMoveTool command line utility allows you to copy attribute values from one attribute to another attribute for a type and all its subtypes. The source and target attributes can be either standard attributes or global attributes, allowing for the following four scenarios can be used to achieve this requirement. The following steps needs to be done to accomplish the changes.


Before you run the utility:



  • The specified type and both the source and target attributes must already exist in the system.

  • Both attributes must be on the same type, and must have the same data type.

  • Any references to the original source attributes, such as in calculated attributes or derived constraints, must be changed to refer to the target attributes.

When you run the tool, for all instances of the specified type:



  • Any current values of the target attribute are deleted.

  • All values from the source attribute are copied to the target attributes. If multi-valued attributes are encountered during this copy process, only certain values are copied:

    • If the copy is from a multi-valued global attribute to a standard attribute, then only one of the multiple global attribute values is copied.


You must confirm that the desired attribute value was copied by viewing attribute on the object information page after the copy is performed.



  • If the copy is from a multi-valued global attribute to another global attribute, all of the multiple values are copied.

  • TheImmutableconstraint is set on the source attribute to prevent new instances from being created or existing instances from being changed.

Thanks


Ayyappan

DavidBrand
14-Alexandrite
(To:sjohnson-3)


Came across the preferences (I think). Please refer to CS99312, extract copied below.


* Instructions to set parameter driven naming and numbering
* Naming Parameter: Specifies the CAD tool designated parameter or property attribute from which the CAD document name is copied during initial upload
* Numbering Parameter: Specifies the CAD tool designated parameter or property attribute from which the CAD document number is copied during initial upload.
* Steps to set parameter driven numbering and naming
* Operation > Upload Operation > Upload > Naming Parameter
* Operation > Upload Operation > Upload > Numbering Parameter
Regards

David.
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