Solved: Re: FAMILY TABLE MAGIC

ptc-4610314 · ‎Jun 24, 2014

Back in 2005 before I started working here someone created a giant family table and it has been wrong since. Is there a way to completely break up the family table, and reorganize its structure? I dont want to erase them because they are used in many places, and i want to retain the file history.

For Example:

Original Generic:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Part 7

Goes to

New generic 1:

Part 1

Part 2

New generic 2:

Part 3

Part 4

etc?

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ptc-4610314 · ‎Jun 25, 2014

Hello all,

We use Creo 2.0 with Windchill 10.1.

I found the answer I was looking for:

SPLITTING UP FAMILY TABLES INTO MULTIPLE TABLES.

(WITH CREO 2.0 AND WINDCHILL 10.1)

THIS PROCESS CAN BE DIVIDED INTO 2 PROCESSES, REMOVING INSTANCES AND ADDING THEM BACK

REMOVING:

1) TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE CHECK OUT ALL OBJECTS AND DRAWINGS TO A PROJECT.
2) CHECK OUT THE GENERIC AND ALL OF ITS INSTANCES TO YOUR WORKSPACE.
3) FOR PEACE OF MIND OPEN THE GENERIC FAMILY TABLE AND OPEN IN EXCEL AND SAVE IT TO A LOCAL PLACE FOR RECORD OF WHAT THE INSTANCES ARE. TAKE A SCREEN SHOT OR SNIPPING TOOL OF THE FAMILY TABLE NAMES AND INSTANCES IF YOU LIKE.
4) WHILE THE GENERIC IS STILL OPEN OPEN A FEW INSTANCES IN CREO (I WORKED IN SMALL GROUPS OF 5-ISH PARTS AT A TIME)
5) IN THE GENERIC FAMILY TABLE DELETE THE ROWS OF THE INSTANCES YOU HAVE OPEN, SAVE THE GENERIC AND INDIVIDUALLY SAVE EACH OF THE EX-INSTANCES (I HAD ISSUES WITH THE FILES IF THEY WEREN’T IN SESSION AND WEREN’T SAVED INDIVIDUALLY). YOU SHOULD NOTICE THAT THE EX-INSTANCES DON’T REFERENCE A PATTERN ANYMORE.
6) CONTINUE STEP 5 UNTIL ALL OF THE INSTANCES ARE REMOVED.
7) WHILE THE GENERIC IS STILL OPEN (AND NO INSTANCES IN THE FAMILY TABLE) DO A FILE SAVE-AS ON THE GENERIC AND NAME OFF THE OTHER GENERICS YOU WISH (YOU CAN DO A WINDCHILL RENAME ON THE CURRENT GENERIC IF YOU NEED THE NAME CHANGED). YOU WILL NOTICE THE NEW HOST GENERICS ARE A “GENERIC CAD DOCUMENT” WITH THE GREY AND BLUE ICON.
😎 CHECK EVERYTHING INTO THE PROJECT AND WHEN PROMPTED CHECK THE BOX FOR REMOVE FROM WORKSPACE.

ADDING:

9) CHECK OUT THE GENERIC TO YOUR WORKSPACE.
10) OPEN THE GENERIC AND ADD AN INSTANCE OF THE OBJECT YOU WISH TO PUT BACK IN THERE NAMED *EXACTLY* THE SAME. AND FROM THE EXCEL SPREADSHEET DOCUMENT FROM STEP 3 RE-FILL ALL OF THE ATTRIBUTES, DIMENSIONS AND FEATURES.
11) VERIFY THE OBJECT
12) SAVE THE GENERIC. YOU WILL SEE AN ERROR MESSAGE FROM WINDCHILL
“New object "CAD Part - [PARTNAME].prt" has the same filename that already exists in the database in "Project – [PROJECT NAME]", folder [PROJECTFOLDER]". In order to upload this object, you must update this object in the workspace.”
13) GO TO YOUR WORKSPACE ON INSTANCE/ INSTANCES PERFORM THE UPDATE FUNCTION. YOU WILL NOW NOTICE THAT THE PART WENT FROM A STANDALONE TO AN INSTANCE OF THE LAST GENERIC.
14) CHECK OUT THE INSTANCE/ INSTANCES THAT ARE MODIFIED AND NOT UPLOADED
15) OPEN THE DRAWING FILE (IF NECESSARY) AND PERFORM A SAVE ON IT TO UPDATE THAT THE PART HAS CHANGED FAMILY TABLES (THIS STEP MAY NOT BE NECESSARY)
16) CHECK ALL ITEMS BACK INTO THE PROJECT AND SEND TO PDM WHEN FINISHED.

View solution in original post

Dale_Rosema · ‎Jun 24, 2014

Do you use Windchill or any PDM software?

Also, are these final assemblies, or are they subassemblies that are used in other assemblies?

I have broken up some family tables, but it is a lot of careful work.

Thanks, Dale

(no PDM software and WF5/Creo)

dschenken · ‎Jun 24, 2014

It's one thing to set instances adrift, but more difficult to divide family tables into new smaller family tables.

I'm pretty sure Pro/E looks at the base Generic to see if the instance is still there, then it looks for a standalone part. I don't think there is a mechanism for it to look in other files to see if the part happens to be in them. You can imagine the confusion if the same item was in multiple family tables.

While you could patch PDM references to get the correct files linked to the new structure and probably have your supplier not support your data after you do so, you still need to modify the assembly files to match.

There's a similar problem with reversing the process - eliminating a standalone model and redirecting requests for it to a family table. So far Pro/E doesn't know to look in all possible family tables to make that substitution when the original part is no longer available.

The option that comes to mind is to prefix all the names with "fix_this_" and create new family tables with interchange groups to the old components.

Dale_Rosema · ‎Jun 24, 2014

As I mentioned it is not an easy process.

1. I find that I can make copies of drawings and cad files from the folders themselves. I usually name the copies with something like "ZZZZZ" as the front after the copies have been made (so that way they "fall" to the bottom when sorting a folder).

(e.g. ZZZZZoldname.asm, ZZZZZoldname.dwg)

2. Open the original drawing(s) and from one of the drawing(s) open the generic assembly model.

(e.g. oldname.asm, oldname.dwg)

3. Rename the generic model to the new name chosen. Rename the instances I want to keep (if needed). Rename the drawings (if needed).

(e.g. oldname.asm -> newname.asm, oldname1<oldname>.asm -> newname1<newname>.asm, oldname.dwg->newname.dwg, ....)

4. Delete the instances that are not needed in this family.

(e.g. oldname4<oldname>.asm, oldname5<oldname>.asm)

5. Save the drawings, models, and generic. Then close and erase from memory.

6. In the folder remove the "ZZZZZ"'s from the copies.

7. Go into the "orignal" files and delete the instances now in the new files.

8. Repeat the process as needed.

If the assemblies are a sub componenet, it gets complicated in that you need the models of the parent components open when you are doing the renaming else the connectivity get lost.

ptc-4610314 · ‎Jun 25, 2014

Hello all,

We use Creo 2.0 with Windchill 10.1.

I found the answer I was looking for:

SPLITTING UP FAMILY TABLES INTO MULTIPLE TABLES.

(WITH CREO 2.0 AND WINDCHILL 10.1)

THIS PROCESS CAN BE DIVIDED INTO 2 PROCESSES, REMOVING INSTANCES AND ADDING THEM BACK

REMOVING:

1) TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE CHECK OUT ALL OBJECTS AND DRAWINGS TO A PROJECT.
2) CHECK OUT THE GENERIC AND ALL OF ITS INSTANCES TO YOUR WORKSPACE.
3) FOR PEACE OF MIND OPEN THE GENERIC FAMILY TABLE AND OPEN IN EXCEL AND SAVE IT TO A LOCAL PLACE FOR RECORD OF WHAT THE INSTANCES ARE. TAKE A SCREEN SHOT OR SNIPPING TOOL OF THE FAMILY TABLE NAMES AND INSTANCES IF YOU LIKE.
4) WHILE THE GENERIC IS STILL OPEN OPEN A FEW INSTANCES IN CREO (I WORKED IN SMALL GROUPS OF 5-ISH PARTS AT A TIME)
5) IN THE GENERIC FAMILY TABLE DELETE THE ROWS OF THE INSTANCES YOU HAVE OPEN, SAVE THE GENERIC AND INDIVIDUALLY SAVE EACH OF THE EX-INSTANCES (I HAD ISSUES WITH THE FILES IF THEY WEREN’T IN SESSION AND WEREN’T SAVED INDIVIDUALLY). YOU SHOULD NOTICE THAT THE EX-INSTANCES DON’T REFERENCE A PATTERN ANYMORE.
6) CONTINUE STEP 5 UNTIL ALL OF THE INSTANCES ARE REMOVED.
7) WHILE THE GENERIC IS STILL OPEN (AND NO INSTANCES IN THE FAMILY TABLE) DO A FILE SAVE-AS ON THE GENERIC AND NAME OFF THE OTHER GENERICS YOU WISH (YOU CAN DO A WINDCHILL RENAME ON THE CURRENT GENERIC IF YOU NEED THE NAME CHANGED). YOU WILL NOTICE THE NEW HOST GENERICS ARE A “GENERIC CAD DOCUMENT” WITH THE GREY AND BLUE ICON.
😎 CHECK EVERYTHING INTO THE PROJECT AND WHEN PROMPTED CHECK THE BOX FOR REMOVE FROM WORKSPACE.

ADDING:

9) CHECK OUT THE GENERIC TO YOUR WORKSPACE.
10) OPEN THE GENERIC AND ADD AN INSTANCE OF THE OBJECT YOU WISH TO PUT BACK IN THERE NAMED *EXACTLY* THE SAME. AND FROM THE EXCEL SPREADSHEET DOCUMENT FROM STEP 3 RE-FILL ALL OF THE ATTRIBUTES, DIMENSIONS AND FEATURES.
11) VERIFY THE OBJECT
12) SAVE THE GENERIC. YOU WILL SEE AN ERROR MESSAGE FROM WINDCHILL
“New object "CAD Part - [PARTNAME].prt" has the same filename that already exists in the database in "Project – [PROJECT NAME]", folder [PROJECTFOLDER]". In order to upload this object, you must update this object in the workspace.”
13) GO TO YOUR WORKSPACE ON INSTANCE/ INSTANCES PERFORM THE UPDATE FUNCTION. YOU WILL NOW NOTICE THAT THE PART WENT FROM A STANDALONE TO AN INSTANCE OF THE LAST GENERIC.
14) CHECK OUT THE INSTANCE/ INSTANCES THAT ARE MODIFIED AND NOT UPLOADED
15) OPEN THE DRAWING FILE (IF NECESSARY) AND PERFORM A SAVE ON IT TO UPDATE THAT THE PART HAS CHANGED FAMILY TABLES (THIS STEP MAY NOT BE NECESSARY)
16) CHECK ALL ITEMS BACK INTO THE PROJECT AND SEND TO PDM WHEN FINISHED.

asubramanian-3 · ‎Oct 26, 2016

Hi Rob,

Thanks for this. It has been very helpful. In the meanwhile a quick question. Let us say we have the following scenario:

Generic

1. Instance_01

2. Instance_02

3. Instance_03

I am splitting the family table like this

Generic 01:

1. Instance_02

2. Instance_03

Generic 02:

1. Instance_01

After the split, when we check in the workspace we see two objects for instance_01 ie. Instance_01 and Instance_01<family table_generic 02). Is this a normal behavior?

thanks

MikeLockwood · ‎Oct 26, 2016

By the way, keep in mind that family tables are:

- A single CAD file

- Multiple Windchill objects, with only the Generic having a Content file

This is why the system always needs to add the Generic to workspace in order to give you any instance.

For an instance to become standalone or part of another Generic, the system has to grab it's data and create a new file. Interesting in these types of things to always closely examine the Content tab of each object in Windchill.

asubramanian-3 · ‎Oct 26, 2016

Hello,

I am not worried about any PDM system right now. I would like to understand from CREO point of view alone. So please let me know if it is normal to have same two instances (please refer to my post above) in the workspace after the family table is split.

thanks

dmcclinton · ‎Oct 27, 2016

You do not want to have files with the same exact name.... Generic's or Instances

Dave

asubramanian-3 · ‎Oct 27, 2016

McClinton,

I am not sure if I understand you. Please go through Robin's post of splitting a family table. Also kindly connect it with my post of what I experience after splitting the family table.

For the benefit of you let me post my question again.

I have a generic and three instances attached to the generic through family table. Now I would want to split that family table. I followed the procedure as posted by Robin ie keeping the instances open along with the generic in the session, deleting the instances from the family table, saving a copy of the generic and then redefining the instances ie. using the same name for the instances that are in session. After all these actions when I go into the workspace I see the same two instances. For example I see two parts for instance_01 that was earlier with generic_01 and now moved to generic_02. It exists in the following format.

instance_01

instance_01(family table_generic 02).

My question is, is this a normal behavior?

If you feel that this is not the right way to split the family table, may I ask your suggestion on how to get this done?

thanks

psobejko · ‎Oct 27, 2016

Without having actually gone through this headache-inducing procedure, I suspect that at some point you did a save-as function to break instance01.prt out of its original generic and turn it temporarily into a standalone part. So it seems that this is what remains in your workspace.

So, double-check that instance01.prt isn't used anywhere and then delete it...

asubramanian-3 · ‎Oct 27, 2016

Thanks Paul for your inputs. Now that I have sorted out from the CREO side, I need to see how it is going to integrate with the PDM system.