Family table of consumables

[AJ_TROGLIO]

We're in testing phase of implementation of Creo 8.0.0.0.  I created a family table of a consumable.  In this case it's Loctite.  The generic is created from our start part which contains three datums, csys and some designated parameters.  There is no other geometry or features.

Add our designated parameter of DESCRIPTION to the family table.  The instance names are the Loctite grades, 242, 243, 262  with corresponding description.  Verify and check-in to Windchill  and all is well.

Assemble the instances into the assembly item.  Constrain the instance datums planes to the part where I want to callout Loctite.   Model tree looks correct.  Check into Windchill and WT and CAD structure looks right. 

Create drawing, BOM table looks correct.  However, cannot show balloons for the Loctite instances as expected like any other component.  Hum..  Scratch head.  Figure balloons need something to point to.  Create datum point at 0,0,0 and verify.  Still no balloons.

Does this consumable need geometry to actually show a balloon?  How is this typically handled?  Trying to avoid bulk items as I want to consume items in my work instructions using the Process for Assy module.  Having assy definition w/ Loctite at the specific location is preferred. 

[BenLoosli]

I would rethink what you have done.

Consumable items that have no real geometry, like Loctite, should be created as Bulk Items. They can go into the BOM with a quantity of AR rather than a value.

Create each Loctite item as separate Bulk Items. We have 12 Loctite part numbers in our Windchill system for different applications.

[aputman]

In addition, BOM balloons can be created for bulk items and can point to any surface or feature. 

https://www.ptc.com/en/support/article/CS40474

[AJ_TROGLIO]

Hi Ben

What is the actual downside of what I proposed?  Is it a Creo, Windchill or other issue?

I have another example I'm doing w/ a family of bulk Loctite.  I've added the bulk item instances to the assembly and they show in the model tree and the drawing BOM correctly.  However, I seem to be limited in the placement of the balloon for the bulk in the drawing.  If I have a dozen different fasteners which need Loctite I can only place the balloon on one item.   If I split the balloons seems I have to split all of them on the drawings just so I can change the quantity and locations of the bulk balloons.   Even after that I seem to be limited in the number of balloons I can place. 

I was successful in getting my table to read A/R for the bulks but that didn't really help my balloon placements. 

[BenLoosli]

Try using a reference balloon for the other locations of the bulk items.

Alternative is to use a note specifying that Loctite XXX is to be applied to all threaded fasteners, or flag it to each location.

[AJ_TROGLIO · Accepted solution]

https://support.ptc.com/help/creo/creo_pma/r10.0/usascii/index.html#page/detail/To_Add_Reference_BOM_Balloons.html

You cannot create reference balloons for bulk items, included items, flexible components, and Family Table top generics.

Foiled by code.  Looks like I'll need to come up w/ something else and test its robustness.

[Chris3]

The downside is that you need geometry for the balloon to appear. If you are adding geometry then you now run into small masses and interferences where there really aren't any. Some of our users went down that path and we are now moving back to bulk items.

We use note symbols to flag consumables.

[Patriot_1776]

What I did to get around these EXACT issues is NOT use a bulk part.  Instead, I made a normal part based on our regular start part (with CS, datum planes, axiis) that has a parameter that triggers relations in the BOM to record the quantity as "AR" when that part parameter is set as a "bulk part" value instead of a real part value, thus ACTING like a bulk part.

For instance, what you can do then is, say, at assembly, you need to put adhesive/lubricant/sealant on a surface(s) of a part or parts.  You can at the fake bulk part level (activate it at the assy level), COPY the appropriate surface(s) as needed from that assembly level into thee part itself.  Now, you have something that you can attach the leader of an item balloon to.  To keep from having the mottled appearance of different coincident surfaces, after you attach the balloon leader to it, put it on a layer and hide it.  Done.  I haven't done this in years, but as I remember it worked very well.  In fact, I MADE a fake bulk start part for just this use, with that parameter already pre-set.

Best of luck!

[aputman]

You can use a balloon note but of course this is not parametric. The balloon note(s) could reference a parameter that would need to be updated with the BOM index of the first bulk balloon.  This would make updating all of the other balloon notes easier but would require you to remember to update the parameter with the new index, if the BOM structure is changed or reordered. 

I have seen many requests for the rpt.index values be made available as parameters, referenceable in notes.  But over and over, PTC chooses not to implement this feature, mostly because it's too difficult.  So now users are stuck with using workarounds and non-parametric solutions.