Layer Rules for Threads and more

[kkrahmer]

Hello all,
We have been given a new layer standard that we are to follow. Items are to exist on only one layer. We are trying to setup rules that will fulfill these requirements. We have a threads layer and an (several actually) axis layer.

I am really struggling with how setup a rule to assign the thread surfaces of hole features and cosmetic threads to the threads layer and to have the axis from the hole go to the axis layer. We also have a surfaces layer. How can I accomplish this?

Thanks in advance,

Karl Krahmer
Mechanisms and Structural Systems
ASRC Aerospace Corporation
Kennedy Space Center, Florida 32899
Mail code ASRC-5211
Office: 321-867-5052
-<">mailto:->





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[dgschaefer]

We don't use many thread features here, and our layers set up requires
only features to be placed on layers, no feature entities such as the
thread surf or axis. I'm thinking that the axis rule is pretty
straightforward, but the thread surf may be more complicated. You can
try:

Look For: Surface
Look by: Feature
Attributes Tab:

Type: is equal to
Category: Misc
Value: Has Thread

I think that should get all the thread surface entities. But, if the
thread feature is on another layer (the axis layer) you aren't going to
get the thread surfaces to show unless you show both layers. That's
because once the feature is hidden, nothing can get the sub items, in
this case feature entities, to show.

If there's an opportunity to push back, having items on multiple layers
can be very useful, if you understand some basic layer rules. I'd
suggest reading the thread at MCAD central:


www.design-central.com

[CM10]

Well, it depends on what you want to do. I want my thread surfaces (either cosmetic or in a hole feature) to always be on, and only put the axis itself on a layer. Same with features that when extruded have axiis. I don't want the features on a layer, only the axiis. This can easily be done in the rules by setting up a rule to "look for" - "axis" and "look by" - "axis", "rule" -"name", with a comparison "is equal to" with a value of "*". this gets only the axiis embedded in any feature. Turn on "associative" and it gets all existing axiis.

In Reply to Karl Krahmer:

Hello all,
We have been given a new layer standard that we are to follow. Items are to exist on only one layer. We are trying to setup rules that will fulfill these requirements. We have a threads layer and an (several actually) axis layer.

I am really struggling with how setup a rule to assign the thread surfaces of hole features and cosmetic threads to the threads layer and to have the axis from the hole go to the axis layer. We also have a surfaces layer. How can I accomplish this?

Thanks in advance,

Karl Krahmer
Mechanisms and Structural Systems
ASRC Aerospace Corporation
Kennedy Space Center, Florida 32899
Mail code ASRC-5211
Office: 321-867-5052
-<mailto:->

[gkbeer]

One thing I tell people about layers, is to be very aware of the difference
between features and entities. You can't build a useful set of layers with
rules unless that critical difference is accounted for.

I also tell people to, start out by butting only features on layers. But
that should not be taken as a hard rule to be followed. The preference to
"put features on layers before entities" was always intended to help people
get a sane start in creating layer and rules. Above all, use the layer rules
that work for you.

The case at hand is an example that would break that rule. A thread of a
threaded hole is an entity, and it's useful to be able to blank them
independent of everything else. PTC complicates this by associating the
hole's axis with the thread entity.   (I'm going to have to take a new look
at that.)

-- Glenn Beer

PS. I do keep an eye on this forum and the McadCentral for posts about
layers.


On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Doug Schaefer <
> wrote:

>  We don't use many thread features here, and our layers set up requires
> only features to be placed on layers, no feature entities such as the thread
> surf or axis.  I'm thinking that the axis rule is pretty straightforward,
> but the thread surf may be more complicated.  You can try:
>
> Look For: Surface
> Look by: Feature
> Attributes Tab:
>

[kkrahmer]

Hello Glenn, Doug, and all,
I have tried numerous rules to get this to work properly. A couple of them seemed like they should work, like Doug's suggestion below. I input it into the Rule Editor and hit Preview Results, as shown. It successfully finds the threads. It actually grabs ALL the surfaces (countersink, solid cylinder, etc), but since you can't blank solid geometry, I thought this to be an acceptable rule. Everything seemed great. I also had a 2nd rule that was Look For: Cosmetic Feature Look By: Cosmetic Feature, Type is equal to , Category All, Value Has Thread that would grab any external cosmetic threads a user might create. We are currently on WF 2.0 M220 and Windhcill 8.0 M050. We are planning on upgrading to Windchill 9.1 very soon and WF 5 shortly after that. (Continued below)

BUT when I exit the rule editor and layer properties, the only item on the layer is the external cosmetic thread. This seems like a bug to me. I have also been having similar problems with rules for the Surfaces layer. The Preview Results shows you're going to get what you expect, but the results do not.


PTC's 1st response was :
From the Layer Properties dialog box, select the Rules tab. Then click on Options > Independent > Options > Associative > Edit Rules.
Set the Look For and Look By to Feature.
Select the Attributes tab and select the Type radio button.
Set the Value field to Cosmetic and click Add New in the Query Builder.
Then set Category field to Miscellaneous, then set the Value field to Has Thread and click Add New in the Query Builder.
Select Preview Results > OK > OK.
But as Glenn mentioned, this puts the axis on the layer as well which is unacceptable. It also puts ALL cosmetics on the layer, the rule I mentioned above seems to work the way I want it to.

Has anyone else seen this problem? How have you overcome them?

Best Regards and thanks in advance,


Karl Krahmer
Mechanisms and Structural Systems
ASRC Aerospace Corporation
Kennedy Space Center, Florida 32899
Mail code ASRC-5211

[CM10]

You actually have the same rule twice.

Like I mentioned above, I don't want to hide the thread surfaces, only the axiis themselves, and the way I mentioned does just that. If you want tohide the thread and axiis, your rule should work. It did for me.

In Reply to Karl Krahmer:

Hello Glenn, Doug, and all,
I have tried numerous rules to get this to work properly. A couple of them seemed like they should work, like Doug's suggestion below. I input it into the Rule Editor and hit Preview Results, as shown. It successfully finds the threads. It actually grabs ALL the surfaces (countersink, solid cylinder, etc), but since you can't blank solid geometry, I thought this to be an acceptable rule. Everything seemed great. I also had a 2nd rule that was Look For: Cosmetic Feature Look By: Cosmetic Feature, Type is equal to , Category All, Value Has Thread that would grab any external cosmetic threads a user might create. We are currently on WF 2.0 M220 and Windhcill 8.0 M050. We are planning on upgrading to Windchill 9.1 very soon and WF 5 shortly after that. (Continued below)

BUT when I exit the rule editor and layer properties, the only item on the layer is the external cosmetic thread. This seems like a bug to me. I have also been having similar problems with rules for the Surfaces layer. The Preview Results shows you're going to get what you expect, but the results do not.


PTC's 1st response was :
From the Layer Properties dialog box, select the Rules tab. Then click on Options > Independent > Options > Associative > Edit Rules.
Set the Look For and Look By to Feature.
Select the Attributes tab and select the Type radio button.
Set the Value field to Cosmetic and click Add New in the Query Builder.
Then set Category field to Miscellaneous, then set the Value field to Has Thread and click Add New in the Query Builder.
Select Preview Results > OK > OK.
But as Glenn mentioned, this puts the axis on the layer as well which is unacceptable. It also puts ALL cosmetics on the layer, the rule I mentioned above seems to work the way I want it to.

Has anyone else seen this problem? How have you overcome them?

Best Regards and thanks in advance,


Karl Krahmer
Mechanisms and Structural Systems
ASRC Aerospace Corporation
Kennedy Space Center, Florida 32899
Mail code ASRC-5211
Office: 321-867-5052
-<mailto:->

[dgschaefer]

I had this whole thing below typed up when I discovered that Pro|E (WF2)
gives me an error "Rule(s) is not supported by layer." when I try to use
the query that you did below. Why would that be? Well, doing it in WF4
gets a better error message: "TEST in TEST.PRT contains a rule for items
that are not supported by layers."

Ah, so because the rule gathers both solid surfs and non-solid surfs,
it's not valid because you cannot put solid surfs on a layer. The good
news is that in WF4, you can search for Quilt by Feature (can't in WF2)
and gather the thread quilt that way.

The rest may be helpful to someone, so here it is anyway.

[gkbeer]

I checked this again.

You can manually put the thread surfaces of hole features onto a THREADS layer, and get the desired action where the thread and axis visibility are individually controlled. The thread shows in the layer as an Entity of the type quilt.

Entities fo the type quilt can be put onto a layer by a rule but there is no way to discriminate between threads and other quilts that might be in the model.

Compound layer rules just do not work where quilts are concerned.

The key to unlocking this is for PTC to make available the "look by" option when quilt is selected in the "look for" field.

For now I am using the following

Axis layer, rule selects all axis entities

Axis_tag layer, rule selects all axis tags

thread layer, rule selects all features having threads

While working with the model I cannot make a thread appear without an axis. But, this doesn't matter for drawings because the "Show Dialog" overrides the axis blanking caused by the layer status.