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Swept Protrusion in Creo Elements 1.0

BrentRMeyer
7-Bedrock

Swept Protrusion in Creo Elements 1.0

Has anyone tried to create a swept protrusion in Creo 1.0. In Pro/E 5.0 you could select Sweep, Protrusion then sketch a closed trajectory. Once you create the trajectory you could use a open sketch and add inner faces to create a solid. I am unable to find the same function in Creo 1.0. Any help would be appreciated.


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87 REPLIES 87

This is why I hate to say anything is impossible in Creo. Most things are possible... we just have to be clever enough to find the solution.

Take care...

-Brian

Vladimir,

Great solution, thank you.

Brent

Outstanding solution!

Brent, you should definitely change Vladimir's response to the correct answer.

Thanks guys, I'm glad I could help .

Have a nice weekend.

Vladimir

Best Regards,
Vladimir Palffy

All,

This still makes me ask the question, What is the actual solution to create the same geometry in Creo Elements? PTC's answer was that I can create a more robust model using other solutions but if I sweep an open sketch and create a open surface then use a fill on the top and bottom to close the surface I then have to solidify the surfaces to create a solid. This seems to use at least 5-6 objects in the model tree just to create the same geometry that I could do with 1 swept protrusion. How is this more robust? When modeling a part it's my challenge to create the part by using the least amount of features in the model tree, to me this is the best way to create a robust model. If you have the answer please let me know.

Thanks

Brent

At risk of taking this thread completely off-topic: now, that's a different question.

I've always been taught that the most robust models in Pro/E use many, simple features. You could sketch a complete shaft in one go, with every round or chamfer; but good practice as we understand it is to keep each sketch to maybe 4-6 lines (and fewer dimensions), use several sketches and revolves to create the shape, and fillet and chamfer the part using, well, fillet and chamfer features.

Are you saying that you'd use one sketch with many lines and dimensions?

Jonathan,

My statement only applies to the swept protrusion. I completely agree that sketches need to be a simplistic as possible. I would not put a round or a chamfer in a sketch unless there was no other way to create the geometry but using 5-6 objects in a model tree to create the same geometry that I used to be able to do in 1 feature seems excessive. Thanks for your response and I do agree with your example.

Brent

Good point. And, to examine PTC's statement, we need the term robust to be defined so that we're not making guesses at their intended meaning.

I feel Brent's pain. He must go from a 1 or 2 feature solution to a 5 or 6 feature solution.

Hi Jonathan...

There's an art to creating models in Creo (and Pro/E). Part of that art is understanding how to make a robust model. There are times I would definitely disagree that sketches should be kept to 4-6 lines... or that chamfers and rounds shouldn't be added to a sketch. Sometimes I stick to these guidelines, sometimes I don't. It truly depends on what I'm trying to do.

A model could be built with extremely simplistic features and NOT be very robust at all. Yet I could combine several features into one more complex sketch and end up with a very robust model.

For newer users, PTC encourages making very simple features. I've seen new users make a simple flange that took over 20 features to create. They followed the guidelines to the letter... but the models were garbag. The word "robust" is thrown around without any real definition. Here are a few things I consider important when developing a "robust" model:

  • Features and dimensions should capture the design intent of the model including tolerances
  • Dimensioning schemes should be meaningful. Dimensions should originate from stable references.
  • Build intelligence into your sketches
    • Utilize sketcher constraints to minimize duplicate dimensions
    • Take advantage of symmetry when possible (and when the design calls for it)
    • Make use of construction lines, sketched points, and axis points when possible
  • Manage your model tree
    • Name features when practical
    • Keep related features together
    • Selectively use the Group option to collapse the model tree. Name your groups!
  • In general, features should be kept simple... however...
    • Be careful not to sacrifice flexibility for simplicity
    • Refrain from making overly simplistic models to compensate for a other users' ignorance
    • Don't be afraid to use chamfers or rounds in a sketch when circumstances merit them
  • Make use of patterns when possible
  • Minimize the number of features in the model when possible
  • Make use of "on the fly" datums and internal sketches wherever possible.
  • Document your model
    • If you're using relations, add comments to explain their function
    • Consider adding Secondary Content to your models in Windchill to document complex model
    • Don't be afraid of annotations, parameters, notes, and embedded URLs to help document your model
  • Plan/manage your references. Choose stable references for features:
    • Name your datums to help explain their function
    • Make only the datums you need... refrain from making extraneous datums when a surface will suffice.
    • Rule of thumb- select a datum as a reference if available, then a surface, then an edge if nothing else is available (but again, don't go making datums everywhere... this is annoying)
  • FLEX YOUR MODEL
    • Try changing some dimensions and regenerating. Insure your model won't fail when making reasonable modifications.
    • TIP: Use Dynamic Edit to see how your model can flex and change without failure. Back out the changes after you've flexed the model. (Check out the brief video below for a demonstration)

Video Link : 2819

In my opinion, ALL of these factors go into making a robust model. A robust model will flex and update without falling apart. A robust model takes advantage of the powerful features of the software. A robust model is easy to use, easy to understand, and as lightweight as possible. It doesn't use complex features when a simple feature will suffice. However, it also doesn't use 8 simple features when one complex feature could do the job.

Balancing all of these factors is where the art comes in. The skill level of the modeler is always a factor. The best models come from the best modelers. And the best modelers are not created from taking training classes. The best modelers learn their craft by experience... by playing with the software... and by constantly refining their technique as they gather new knowledge.

It sounds very nebulous and certainly much more complex than the simple guidelines you've given in training class. That's because it is. Surely anyone with a set of paints and a canvas can slap down some shapes and colors and call it art... but a true artist paints using specific tools, colors, and techniques to create his work. Modeling in Creo is no different... there's definitely an art which takes time to learn and appreciate.

But... that's just my opinion.

Regards,

-Brian

Brent,

Please refere to my all cases and respective SPR. PTC does not answer me. I have raised the issue and

questions to so many persons with PTC. Nobody is willing to answer. I even called CEO for this.

Gautam Vora.

Today, the case with PTC regarding this discussion is being closed arbitrarily. It looks like and in my opinion,

PTC does not want to hear from people like us.

Thanks.

Gautam Vora.

BrianMartin
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

Hi Gautam...

This is definitely a problem. If you disagree with your case being closed, you can re-open it and escalate the issue to a higher authority.

There may be no solution to your problem... and in this case I think that's what they're saying. But you can certainly escalate your call up the chain of command until you either (a) receive a satisfactory resolution or (b) carry your problem as far as it can go.

Eventually you'll hit the product line manager... and he/she may be able to explain the reasoning behind why the sweep options were changed. It's small comfort when you're trying to bring back a feature that you used to like and use... but at least you'll know you're being heard.

My advice would be to re-open your call and escalate the issue.

Thanks!

-Brian

KrisR
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

Did you re-open this? I find that some times the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....

gvora
10-Marble
(To:KrisR)

I REOPENED THE CASE TWICE AND PTC CLOSED THE CASE TWICE.

Thanks

Gautam Vora.

Kevin
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

I don't think they see it as a problem since they have a modeling approach that acommplishes the same thing. The solution I've seen is to create a closed sweep section and then extrude the sweep trajectory to create the inner filled area.

dear all

in Creo parametric 1.0+, need use "LEGACY", as follows:

1. toggle on command search utility

2. type "legacy", pick "Legacy"

3. Feature --> Create --> Solid --> Protrusion --> Sweep --> Done

Will appear WF5.0- Sweep UI

(Legacy icon in "Commands not the ribbon",can add to the Ribbon)

Whoa... LEGACY mode!!! I'm totally envious that I didn't think of that first. Legacy mode always available when you need to step back in time a bit. What a tremendous solution...

Aries Chen from the top rope... flattens everyone and solves the problem.

If this works (no reason to assume it doesn't) this is huge.

Thanks Aries!

-Brian

KrisR
12-Amethyst
(To:AriesChen)

BRILLIANT!

But I'd like to know why PTC didn't suggest this to Gautam Vora in the first place.........would have saved them MUCH headache. That's poor support in my opinion. If indeed it does work. Waiting to hear from Gautam Vora to see if it does!

Patriot_1776
22-Sapphire II
(To:KrisR)

I just had to do 4 sweeps with "Add Inner Fcs" the other day, in fact. It saved me a ton of time. But then, I'm still choosing to use WF4 for my new designs. Unfortunately I've got to do some work in Creo today, so I'll check that out and see how it works.

The idea that it's somehow easier to "complete the model using fill surfaces" is ludicrous. Being able to ad the inner faces like that is great, whereas the "Fill" command is a pain to use. I hate the way you have to go about defining the sketching plane, especially if you have to create a datum on the fly. Ugh......

gvora
10-Marble
(To:KrisR)

Kris,

PTC is so upset and apparently does not like this issue that PTC deleted my whole case.

Thanks for support.

Gautam Vora.

Patriot_1776
22-Sapphire II
(To:gvora)

WOW! Way to treat the customer......

Who cares how upset they are, WE are the customer, not them.

KrisR
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

This is a BIG issue with support. How far up the chain did you go?

gvora
10-Marble
(To:KrisR)

Kris

I went as far as James Hepelman, CEO.

Thanks.

Gautam Vora.

DanMarotta
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

I did some research and the Support case was indeed closed, not deleted, due to the decision on the SPR request and the opening of this Idea http://communities.ptc.com/ideas/1045 which is still open for member voting. Support will be closing duplicate cases if they identify the Idea exists on PlanetPTC. If the Idea gains emphasis, Support can and will go back and open the case and review the SPR.

Just added my vote

Brent

Dan,

For your kind information, it is not viewable by the originator, that is me. So I understand it is deleted.

You searched but not thoroughly. Dan, I wish you could be more neutral.

Thanks.

Gautam Vora.

Hi Dan...

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that the SPR for this request was removed because the idea is up for voting on Planet PTC? Something about that doesn't sound quite right.

This is a legacy feature that arguably should have never been removed in the first place. The replacement feature doesn't duplicate the functionality of the original... and requires more features and effort to mimic. Yet, the old feature still WORKS... as evidenced by Vladimir's workaround.

I guess I don't see this as an idea to voted on as much as I see it as a return of lost functionality. Am I seeing this incorrectly?

Also... to speak to Kris' point... in my opinion this is a failure from customer support. Aries recommended a solution off the top of his head that rivaled the customer service hotline. I believe this speaks to a problem many of us have expressed previously... a need for a better support paradigm.

Thanks!

-Brian

KrisR
12-Amethyst
(To:BrianMartin)

I agree with Brian's ascertation of the support structure, knowledge, and how it works. They should have suggested this right off the bat.

Also, I don't think it's right to close an SPR either, if an Idea has been created. Just because PTC has removed the functionality, the SPR should stand and perhaps POINT to the Idea - not remove the SPR altogether. If someone else had this issue, and searched the SPR database, they would NOT be able to find it. It should stand as an SPR and then POINT to the idea. Not remove the SPR altogether. I searched the SPR database and these are both marked as "not customer viewable".

Removing this was NOT the way to go. It would make me feel like PTC has said, "tough toenails, we have changed this and no matter what you say, it's not going to change back".

Well, I can tell you what can change - monies going to PTC.

gvora
10-Marble
(To:KrisR)

Kris,

I got very insulting E-MAIL from PTC personell for making the case not viewable by me.

Thanks.

Gautam Vora.

KrisR
12-Amethyst
(To:gvora)

Gautam,

I am sorry that you've had to experience that. But please always remember to take the high road - I have had a great deal of email contact with support, their supervisors and even someone at PTC HQ when I have had a difficult issue. I know how it makes someone feel when they have to deal with that.

I'm glad that this thread got some attention by some of the long standing members of the forum here, and PTC as well. We have strength in numbers and our voices will be heard.

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