Backward Compatibility ???

TedDiehl,PhD · ‎Aug 30, 2009

Questions to Beta Tester's and PTC. Please provide your answer's and opinions.

Four Questions:

Q1) How much backward compatibility with Mathcad 14 - 11 (and older) does Prime (or its future version) need for existing Mathcad users and their colleagues to Purchase Prime and move their organizations from Mathcad to Prime?

- My answer is ~ 100%, similar to the backward compatibility I get with WORD, PowerPoint, Abaqus, Quicken, Quickbooks, etc. Old work should operate ~100% properly in new versions, I should have to re-work nothing, or very little and very infrequently. Engineer's are expensive, internal processes in corporations have QA standards - anything beyond minor, infrequent incompatibilities is unacceptable.

Q2) How long will you wait for Prime to have your required amount of backward compatibility?

Q3) Is Prime a replacement for Mathcad or a different (New) Product?

Q4) As Mathcad users, what are your plans for your Mathcad-based work-flows (existing and future)?

Ted Diehl
Developer of Kornucopia(r) - a Mathcad-based toolbox for engineers and researchers working with challenging data.

kweb · ‎Aug 31, 2009

Q1) How much backward compatibility with Mathcad 14 - 11 (and older) does Prime (or its future version) need for existing Mathcad users and their colleagues to Purchase Prime and move their organizations from Mathcad to Prime?

As we have only a small budget in house to develop calculation sheets Prime will need to be near 100% backwards compatibile. As with most all major software packages - backward compatibiliy is a must.

Q2) How long will you wait for Prime to have your required amount of backward compatibility?

We have a numberical integration worksheet in MC14 which will need to work in Prime before we can convert. This NI worksheet was develop in conjunction with Mathsoft many years ago and utilizes several of the "programming" functions within MC14.

As MC14 is not broken we have no reason to upgrade before we have 100% backward compatibility.

Q3) Is Prime a replacement for Mathcad or a different (New) Product?

The way I see it - Prime is a replacement product for MC14.

Q4) As Mathcad users, what are your plans for your Mathcad-based work-flows (existing and future)?

We will continue to utilize MC14 until until Prime is ready for "Prime Time" and is 100% backwards compatible and can "import" our MC14 worksheets with no formating issues as we have today with the beta version. Way to much re-work to get the calculation sheets to look the same.

Keith

PhilipLeitch · ‎Aug 31, 2009

On 8/30/2009 12:29:38 PM, diehlted wrote:
>Four Questions:
>
>Q1) How much backward
>compatibility with Mathcad 14
>- 11 (and older) does Prime
>(or its future version) need
>for existing Mathcad users and
>their colleagues to Purchase
>Prime and move their
>organizations from Mathcad to
>Prime?

I would say close to 100% compatibility in functionality of the functions I use, but as little as 80% compatibility in formatting. That is - I need to be able to open a worksheet and have it open everything, but I don't need plots to be exactly the same size, or all text and equations to look exactly the same in the same position.

>Q2) How long will you wait for
>Prime to have your required
>amount of backward
>compatibility?

5 years or so. I can copy into Excel and word for extra features I need

>Q3) Is Prime a replacement for
>Mathcad or a different (New)
>Product?

Should be an upgrade, looks like a new and completely different product.

>Q4) As Mathcad users, what are
>your plans for your
>Mathcad-based work-flows
>(existing and future)?

Keep using current version until a better option comes up - prime or otherwise

Philip
___________________
Nobody can hear you scream in Euclidean space.

RichardJ · ‎Aug 31, 2009

On 8/30/2009 12:29:38 PM, diehlted wrote:

>Q1) How much backward
>compatibility with Mathcad 14
>- 11 (and older) does Prime
>(or its future version) need
>for existing Mathcad users and
>their colleagues to Purchase
>Prime and move their
>organizations from Mathcad to
>Prime?

For me, an absolute minimum of 90%. That does not mean that 90% of the current functionality is compatible, it means 9 out of 10 of the worksheets will work as soon as I open them, with no modifications required. That would require a great deal more than 90% of the functionality to be compatible.

>Q2) How long will you wait for
>Prime to have your required
>amount of backward
>compatibility?

Good question. I am concerned enough about the way things are going that if there were a real alternative to Mathcad available then it's quite possible I would start using that for all new work, starting now. There isn't though, so I will wait to see how long it takes to get the next release of Prime, and what's in it. Based on that I will have a better idea of how long it will take to get, or whether we will ever get, a realistic upgrade. Then I'll make a decision.

>Q3) Is Prime a replacement for
>Mathcad or a different (New)
>Product?

It's certainly not a replacement now. Will it ever be? If yes, how long will that take? Good questions, that will be easier to answer (or make educated guesses about) when we see the next release of Prime.

>Q4) As Mathcad users, what are
>your plans for your
>Mathcad-based work-flows
>(existing and future)?

Stick it out until the next release of Prime, then decide.

Richard

ptc-1209116 · ‎Aug 31, 2009

I'd require backward compatibilty of 90%+ back to mathcad 6. That would be functioning math and same results, but allow for formatting and alignment issues.

As mathcad 1 is significantly stripepd down from 14, I would recommend against downgradig to it until it picks up symbolics and programming and achieves backward comaptibility.

I MIGHT wait a year or so, but my tendancey would be to throw in the towel at work and move to Matlab, or MAYBE Maple if they ever got decent documentation

GuyB · ‎Sep 01, 2009

On 8/30/2009 12:29:38 PM, diehlted wrote:
>Q1) How much backward
>compatibility with Mathcad 14
>- 11 (and older) does Prime
>(or its future version) need
>for existing Mathcad users and
>their colleagues to Purchase
>Prime and move their
>organizations from Mathcad to
>Prime?

Like Richard, I would want >90% compatibility with my existing v11 worksheets. That means symbolics & programming. I've never seen software other than Mathcad with such bad compatibility issues. (Well, at least backward compatibility. Lots of problems with new files and original software versions of other programs.)

>Q2) How long will you wait for
>Prime to have your required
>amount of backward
>compatibility?

If Prime won't work, I see no reason to use it. Period. If PTC stops supporting old licenses (AGGHH!) then I'll move on altogether. I can use Labview for a lot of things, but I'd probably wind up w/ Matlab. I'll miss the ability to do symbolic manipulation, though ... I might then have to push for at least two other software packages.

>
>
>Q3) Is Prime a replacement for
>Mathcad or a different (New)
>Product?

A replacement? As it is now? Surely you jest.

A new product? Not even that. Right now I'd probably prefer the WinXP calculator. (The release version might be worthwhile - I'm judging it on its current merit.)

>Q4) As Mathcad users, what are
>your plans for your
>Mathcad-based work-flows
>(existing and future)?

Keep working as I am, while looking nervously up at the gathering storm clouds.

If Mathcad really goes away, then I'll need to print out a lot of hardcopies, hoping I can save enough of my more-important work to duplicate elsewhere.

- Guy

Fred_Kohlhepp · ‎Sep 01, 2009

On 8/30/2009 12:29:38 PM, diehlted wrote:
>Questions to Beta Tester's and
>PTC. Please provide your
>answer's and opinions.
>
>Four Questions:
>
>Q1) How much backward
>compatibility with Mathcad 14
>- 11 (and older) does Prime
>(or its future version) need
>for existing Mathcad users and
>their colleagues to Purchase
>Prime and move their
>organizations from Mathcad to
>Prime?

For work, I need the ability to read any mathcad document that I've produced, that goes back quite a while (Macintosh days.) I don't need it to work, that would be a significant advantage, but it must at least open and be readable. If it doesn't work, then I need to be able to modify it to work--that's where Prime fails miserably right now, too much functionality is left out. As far as moving my company to prime, that decision is left to the IT people; I can request a program or suggest that one not be implemented, but the end users in my company don't decide.

>Q2) How long will you wait for
>Prime to have your required
>amount of backward
>compatibility?

'Til hell freezes over. Or until PTC won't license my single user version of 14 to my new computer or it won't run on my new computer.

>Q3) Is Prime a replacement for
>Mathcad or a different (New)
>Product?

From what I've seen (and what I've read here) it's a new product. It kind of looks like mathcad, and it kind of can be made to do some of what mathcad does; but it's not mathcad.

>Q4) As Mathcad users, what are
>your plans for your
>Mathcad-based work-f lows
>(existing and future)?

If prome doesn't get fixed and what I have now qiuts working, then I'll switch to MatLab--there's a strong push in my company in that direction now. I'll miss a lot of the features that make me prefer Mathcad now (units and documentation for two) but MatLab works, and I used to be able to do unit conversion. . .

Fred Kohlhepp
fkohlhepp@sikorsky.com

ptc-1178444 · ‎Sep 03, 2009

Q1) How much backward compatibility with Mathcad 14 - 11 (and older) does Prime (or its future version) need for existing Mathcad users and their colleagues to Purchase Prime and move their organizations from Mathcad to Prime?

- To put things in perspective 14 is available at my company but the more seasoned (= "power" = "old farts") users still mostly use 11 because of the crappy backward compatibility introduced with 12. While 14 is now reasonably compatible with 11 we have been burned enough that our reflex is still to revert to 11 when we have to accomplish a task with confidence. In the meantime we have started using Matlab and Maxima for symbolic processing. So it's not that we are unwilling to learn new stuff but the new stuff has to "work".
Moving to Prime would require painless compatibility with 11 and later file formats. I could entirely give up on the formatting of the worksheet but the math, programs and DLL have to work. The scripted components would be a major plus but I'm not sure I would put them as a "must have".
As an aside, I have never been able to figure out the commercial effect of the jump from 11 to 12 for Mathsoft. I know "we in the forum" bitched plenty about SUC and other features but what about the general customer base? If I was PTC I think I would be weary of reproducing the 11->12 transition with a 14->Prime transition. I could be way off base of course...

Q2) How long will you wait for Prime to have your required amount of backward compatibility?

For as long as it takes to make the transition painless from 11. So we'll have to wait to evaluate Prime 2.0 and maybe Prime 3.0 will fit the bill. (As 14 did with respect to 11).
We might also decide to ditch Mathcad entirely...

Q3) Is Prime a replacement for Mathcad or a different (New) Product?

Since this is already beta I think Prime 1.0 is simply a different product, which might in fact be targeted at a different crowd.

Q4) As Mathcad users, what are your plans for your Mathcad-based work-flows (existing and future)?

No change for now.

Xavier

cvmdiseno01-dis · ‎Sep 07, 2009

Q1) How much backward compatibility with Mathcad 14 - 11 (and older) does Prime (or its future version) need for existing Mathcad users and their colleagues to Purchase Prime and move their organizations from Mathcad to Prime?

I need at least 95% backward compatibility; if there will be changes on functions or programming or component, I think that should be a kind of help to give us directions about to make these changes in a worksheet.

Q2) How long will you wait for Prime to have your required amount of backward compatibility?

The first problem will be the compatibility with new operating systems even more with 64 bit systems, fortunately software like VM Ware give us a solution making virtual machines where we can run old software. I can wait much time.

Q3) Is Prime a replacement for Mathcad or a different (New) Product?

I see Prime like new product; Prime will replace Mathcad when it offers at least the same features or even more.

Q4) As Mathcad users, what are your plans for your Mathcad-based work-flows (existing and future)?

Keep working with the current version (MC14). When Prime offers same functionality o more I will think to migrate to Prime

Carlos Villase�or M.

josephbradley26 · ‎Sep 07, 2009

On 8/30/2009 12:29:38 PM, diehlted wrote:
>Questions to Beta Tester's and
>PTC. Please provide your
>answer's and opinions.
>
>Four Questions:
>
>Q1) How much backward
>compatibility with Mathcad 14
>- 11 (and older) does Prime
>(or its future version) need
>for existing Mathcad users and
>their colleagues to Purchase
>Prime and move their
>organizations from Mathcad to
>Prime?
>

My answer >90%.

>
>Q2) How long will you wait for
>Prime to have your required
>amount of backward
>compatibility?
Several years. But in the interim, we are already planning to acquire MATLAB.

>
>Q3) Is Prime a replacement for
>Mathcad or a different (New)
>Product?
Prime was potentially a replacement for Mathcad. We are running M11 as a legacy application and run the risk every day that it will be shutdown by the network security folks.

>
>Q4) As Mathcad users, what are
>your plans for your
>Mathcad-based work-flows
>(existing and future)?
>
Use M11 as long as possible.

>Ted Diehl
>Developer of Kornucopia(r) - a
>Mathcad-based toolbox for
>engineers and researchers
>working with challenging data.

MichaelMcCann,P · ‎Sep 11, 2009

100% or very near AND able to read back to MC8 at least.

I will wait till it works before using it.

So far Prime is NOT Mathcad.

Mike.
Dr M. J. McCann,
www.mccannscience.com

LarryLederer-di · ‎Sep 13, 2009

As an experiment I did a lengthy worksheet in both MathCAD 14 and then duplicated it in MathCAD Prime. I made comments where there were issues (they are in red letters in the Prime worksheet) Some where trivial but annoying. I created nearly all the text in the prime worksheet by copying and pasting from the MathCAD 14 worksheet, this cause a variety of extra characters to often appear in the pasted text.

I sent this to the beta testers already, I am posting here as I thought would be interesting to the beta testers to see how Mathcad 14 and Prime worksheets compare.