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Jan 10, 2017
01:49 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
01:49 PM

Incorrect derivative

Hello,

I encountered a very strange problem in Mathcad 15. When I want to calculate a derivative symbolically that contains a natural logarithm the solution is wrong. I do not know why is it so.

Attached you can find the Mathcad file.

Regards

Rafal

Solved! Go to Solution.

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Jan 10, 2017
10:24 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
10:24 PM

I can confirm that this is a severe bug.

Here in Mathcad 15 M045

and here in Prime 3.0

As you can see the problem occurs with other functions, too. If the function simplifies to an exact value like ln(e) or if we force to switch to float mode or if we introduce another variable (anywhere) the derivative is OK.

I am not absolutely sure but can it be that we had already discussed this bug quite a while ago? But I could not find an appropriate thread, so maybe I am wrong about that.

Anybody using older releases of Mathcad 15 or even Mathcad 15 and can give it try to see if its a newly introduced bug ar an older one.

16 REPLIES 16

Jan 10, 2017
03:23 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
03:38 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
03:38 PM

Hmm. It still does not work for me. Maybe it is related to Mathcad 15 version/patch? I attached a snapshot of my original problem (left) and your solution (right).

Jan 10, 2017
06:30 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
06:30 PM

Seems like a bug to me. You get the correct result if you put variables in the natural logarithm instead of numbers:

Jan 10, 2017
08:55 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
08:55 PM

Yes, it is a bug. The problem does not appear in Mathcad version 13.

Jan 10, 2017
10:24 PM

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Jan 10, 2017
10:24 PM

I can confirm that this is a severe bug.

Here in Mathcad 15 M045

and here in Prime 3.0

As you can see the problem occurs with other functions, too. If the function simplifies to an exact value like ln(e) or if we force to switch to float mode or if we introduce another variable (anywhere) the derivative is OK.

I am not absolutely sure but can it be that we had already discussed this bug quite a while ago? But I could not find an appropriate thread, so maybe I am wrong about that.

Anybody using older releases of Mathcad 15 or even Mathcad 15 and can give it try to see if its a newly introduced bug ar an older one.

Jan 11, 2017
03:43 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
03:43 AM

The bug is there in the earliest M15.

If you click on the ln(2)(x) the display changes to ln(2(x))

Alan

Jan 11, 2017
05:38 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
05:38 AM

AlanStevens wrote:

The bug is there in the earliest M15.

If you click on the ln(2)(x) the display changes to ln(2(x))

Alan

Oh, I see. Its a strange bug. And when we assign the derivative to a function and evaluate it symbolically, we get a strange error message

In my last sentence above I wanted to write *"Anybody using older releases of Mathcad 15 or even Mathcad ***14***..."*

It seems the change quite a bit from 14 to 15 concerning the symbolic calculus (mainly wrong integral tables, I guess) - so maybe it happened there.

Jan 12, 2017
08:47 PM

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Jan 12, 2017
08:47 PM

FYI - this error also exists in 14.0 M020.

Jan 13, 2017
03:19 AM

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Jan 13, 2017
03:19 AM

Thanks for the information. So it was one of the many bugs which were already introduced by the replacement of Maple by MuPad and chances are we can't blame PTC for it 😉

Jan 11, 2017
03:56 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
03:56 AM

Just to make sure....Mathcad 11:

Luc

Jan 11, 2017
05:39 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
05:39 AM

Thanks. But I had no doubt, that MC11 with Maple would get it right 😉

Jan 11, 2017
06:36 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
06:36 AM

Thank you for your reply. Indeed, there is a way to deal with this bug by multiplying the expression by additional variable. I have introduced it in my calculations, and after the derivative is calculated I set the additional variable value to 1.

Jan 11, 2017
04:04 PM

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Jan 11, 2017
04:04 PM

Rafal Sulwinski wrote:

Yes and you could do it in one step by using the symbolic "substitute" (which automatically applies some "simplifications" which you probably may not like).

Using the Ctrl-Shift-K trick we can even create a variable name which is a simple space and also hide the keywords so all looks like it is as it should.

But this all should not be necessary and I consider it a really server bug. Anybody willing to report it?

Jan 11, 2017
07:00 PM

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Jan 11, 2017
07:00 PM

I am not absolutely sure but can it be that we had already discussed this bug quite a while ago? But I could not find an appropriate thread, so maybe I am wrong about that.

Yes, we did. However, I also cannot find the thread.

Jan 11, 2017
03:14 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
03:14 AM

I ask my students what is a derivative of x^n.

99% answer n*x^(n-1). And only 1% asks - what is a variable

Jan 11, 2017
05:41 AM

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Jan 11, 2017
05:41 AM

????????????

The variable of differentiation in Rafals sheet is clearly dx_M.xx - no doubt.