Various documents posted by PTC staff

[Werner_E]

Isn't it a sad thing how PTC is now recycling a couple of old Mathcad E-books? Without the ability of hyperlinks to hold together associated parts which belong together and without the ability to easily access those files from within Mathcad as we were used to.

It also seems that PTC staff is not aware of how many features are missing in Prime compared to Mathcad. Or can somebody explain how to follow the instructions given in one of the sheet (see screenshot below, but we don't have static symbolics in Prime). You will find a lot of that kind of descrepany and idiosyncrasy in those sheets.

Why not just wait until Prime is at least at the level of Mathcad and convert the old sheets then?

Also the place and way to present those sheets as postings in a forum is a bit strange and sure inappropriate. Static content doesn't fit a dynamic medium, even if a table of content is updated with every post and anchored as "Featured Documents".

[ValeryOchkov]

„Please do not shoot the pianist. He is doing his best"

(http://phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/37/messages/932.html)

This phrase is about Mathcad

[Werner_E]

Valery, the point was not how to solve that one expression I grabbed as an example, thats nonsignifcant. Look at the sheets - you will read about blue underline cursors you can expand by pressing space, read about adding plots by typing a comma, etc., etc. The conversion of those sheets is simply a sloppy work - no wonder, a lot of sheets to do probably in a short time. But as you can read I didn't aim my post at a specific person but at PTC staff in general

To stay with the phrase you cited and taking the first meaning in the link you provided: PTC has a new piano which is still out of tune and an old one which is not. Somebody is responsible for the fact that the wrong one is already played.

Addendum: The sheets which are now converted to feign content existing for Prime are older than I thought. Not even Mathcad 15 will yield the result given using static symbolics. So obviously those sheets were written for something like Mathcad 11 with Maple as symbolics. Great job!

@Tudor, as I assume that you are not only the person who posted the sheets but also the one whose task was to convert them: I am sorry to have to say that, but ist not enough to simply convert the sheets and delete the paragraphs which obviously deal with subjects not available in Prime anymore. Those sheets have to be rewritten if they should make any sense (unless of course if the intended sense is to be able to show how much content is already available for Prime). In doing so you should also highlight the subjects which Prime can do better than older versions of Mathcad (yes, there are a few). As an example in one of the graphing tutorials I found a long winding paragraph how to get Mathcad (sorry, Prime) to plot a graph showing feets instead of the SI units meters. This is far easier in Prime now and the "converted" sheet should reflect that, I think.

And please reread the sheets before posting - a lot of them has horrible page breaks. Especially those inside of a text region are inferiour! Personally I consider the handling of page break a severe Prime bug, but its there and if you publish you have to deal with it (adding hard page breaks, adding lines in a text region, etc.)

[Fred_Kohlhepp]

Valery's, "Don't shoot the piano player," is valid; but Werner is making a very valid point.

PTC marketing must be taking a large hit from people who used Mathcad previously and are disappointed by Prime's lack of ability. The solution: hire some co-ops to convert the old files to show people what Prime can really do.

It's working!!!

I haven't been using Prime at work (until version 3 it hasn't been worth it, lack of features and the learning curve on the editor both are factors plus the time required to convert twenty years of sheets,) so I hadn't bothered to look at those sheets yet. Werner, thanks! Now I won't bother.

[Werner_E]

It could well be that some of the posted documents aren't just sloppy conversions from old e-books but are worth looking at, but if there are some, I simply didn't hit them. Prime is far too slow in starting and handling so I just gave a very few of the last posted documents a look. Would be a good idea to add pdf's of the files as well - they are quick and easily accessed and they even may be a teaser for potential customers.

Concerning your suggestion to hire co-ops for document conversion I think its too soon to do so. First Prime has to be brought to a level compareable to old Mathcad, then you could do the conversion and highlight the new improvements.

Those files in the document sections of this forum (which as I guess are supposed to replace the old repository, PTC has killed) are somewhat a mess and hard to access and the nicely made table of contents doesn't change that much on this. Sometimes files which belong together are posted as separate documents, sometimes they are packed in a zip and have to be unpacked first - no uniform line. Of course one drawback seems to be that the forums document feature doesn't make is easy to post multiple files and again Primes lack of hyperlinking sheets does the rest. The latter feature shouldn't be that hard to (re)implement, though.

That growth of files in the document section reminds me on the impression I got from the development of Prime - looks like the same handwriting/signature - and that not a compliment.

[RichardJ]

Like Fred, I hadn't bothered to look at these worksheets because I don't use Prime. These kinds of errors are really easy to find when I do look at them though! From the graphing tutorial, here's how to enter a range variable:

Wrong!

And then at the start of the next page, we have:

"We choosed"? Really? I guess there's no proof reading for grammar or spelling either!

And then we have a beautiful example of a horrible page break:

The person that's doing the conversions obviously doesn't even bother to read the converted sheet, and there's obviously also no review whatsoever.

[RichardJ]

Here's a prime example (pun intended ), from the Mathcad basics tutorial:

The second example isn't even correct! That's not how the editor works in Prime! Existing users of Mathcad don't want to adopt Prime because of it's shortcomings, but new users might be tempted (unless they read the forums first of course ). But how do they expect new users to adopt it if they can't even get through the basic tutorial, because the tutorial is wrong? Pathetic.

[Werner_E]

Existing users of Mathcad don't want to adopt Prime because of it's shortcomings, but new users might be tempted (unless they read the forums first of course ).

Wow, thats what I call a polite formulation/wording!

I also refused looking at those Prime posts until a couldn't resist to open a few of the last flood. So I can't tell how many sheets are affected by that kind of slopiness and missing review. But I think PTC would be good adviced to withdraw them until the have undergone a thourough review and rewrite.

[RichardJ]

Wow, thats what I call a polite formulation/wording!

I'm not sure if I should take that literally (i.e you would not have been as nice about it), or as sarcasm . Anyway, politeness doesn't seem to have got us to where we want to be, so being blunt has to be plan B.

I think PTC would be good adviced to withdraw them until the have undergone a thourough review and rewrite.

I agree. At this point I would consider that damage control.

[Werner_E]

Polite or blunt, I fear PTC won't listen to their customers anyway 😞 They seem not to be willing to do so.

[Fred_Kohlhepp]

Werner Exinger wrote:

Concerning your suggestion to hire co-ops for document conversion I think its too soon to do so. First Prime has to be brought to a level compareable to old Mathcad, then you could do the conversion and highlight the new improvements.

That was not a suggestion, but an observation. Review the biographies of a few of the posters.

[RogerYeh]

Yes, we do recognize the missing features. No hyperlinks is indeed a drawback. That said, a lot of the old e-books contained good info, so our main goal was to make them available to Prime users. As you mentioned, we missed some changes during the conversion. The "winding paragraph" on changing axis units was a bad one. Mea culpa. We'll be able to fix the major offenses more quickly with your help!

[Werner_E]

Seems not to be so easy.

I do not apply myself as proof reader but just had a glance at the newly posted Basics Tutorial:

Wrong again! We need to type the space bar three times to get the desired result! And again an awful page break.

Hmm - so whats the difference apart from the inconsistent type face/font size?

Again in the secon expression you need to type space three times.

Roger Yeh wrote:

That said, a lot of the old e-books contained good info,

Agreed! It was good info for a good software.

So why not wait until Prime is a good software, too, and offers the features necessary. Maybe we can get hyperlinks, better looking pagebreaks and all the other things we are missing in a future version of Prime. And maybe PTC decides to provide a better place to offer those files more clearly arranged. IMHO its not until then that work of PTC staff put in conversion and reviewing would make sense.

[RichardJ]

Werner Exinger wrote:

Roger Yeh wrote:

That said, a lot of the old e-books contained good info,

Agreed! It was good info for a good software.

So why not wait until Prime is a good software, too, and offers the features necessary.

Why not wait until Prime has e-books, and then convert the books.

Although I think maybe Prime will never have such capbilities

[Werner_E]

That was exactly one feature I had in mind.

But the funny things continue - I couldn't hold myself and gave the freshly posted Graphing Tutotial a look - interesting!

Apart from the items in the screenshot below the chapter about the popup Tracing dialog box and how to get it by clicking the pencil button was very interesting and of course applies to Mathcad only and not to Prime (the good info is now available to Prime users, too, hmm!?). What shall I say other than "Avoid opening those files!".

[RichardJ]

Given how many of these errors exist, someone that actually knows Prime needs to go through each document and fix them. That will be a lot of work.

[Werner_E]

Richard Jackson wrote:

Given how many of these errors exist, someone that actually knows Prime needs to go through each document and fix them. That will be a lot of work.

Yes, but I think its a pity about the work invested. It would make more sense to withdraw the files and wait until Prime gets good enough (or is hoping that too naive?)

EDIT:

@PTC: Now I see that Version 3 of both Basics and Graphing Tuorials are posted. Both still contain errors. The first, among ohers, even one I already mentioned. But I am really tired of reviewing and from now on will stick to my own advice and avoid looking at those files.

[RichardJ]

It would make more sense to withdraw the files and wait until Prime gets good enough

For some things, that's true. For others, it's just different in Prime, and those worksheets could be converted now (and recompiled into an e-book if and when Prime ever has e-books). But conversion means someone that really understands how Prime works needs to go through every worksheet very carefully and make sure they are correct, and correctly formatted. PTC would be much better off posting good worksheets at a much slower rate than a flood of worksheets that are full of errors. A stream of crystal clear water is better than a river of ____. I'll leave the reader to fill in the last word

(or is hoping that too naive?)

How many lifetimes are we talking about?

But I am really tired of reviewing and from now on will stick to my own advice and avoid looking at those files.

I certainly have no intention of proof reading them. As I said, that would be a lot of work, and since I don't even use Prime, and would have no use for most of those worksheets even if I did, it would be work with zero reward.

[Werner_E]

It would make more sense to withdraw the files and wait until Prime gets good enough

For some things, that's true. For others, it's just different in Prime, and those worksheets could be converted now (and recompiled into an e-book if and when Prime ever has e-books).

would be work with zero reward.

But it doesn't make much sense to delete the sections now about the features Prime hasn't, (like allignment of regions or the plot tracing popup) just to add them later again (if anybody thinks about adding it at all), unless of course PTC doesn't plan at all to add that functionalities in future Prime versions. "Finish" Prime first to a level comparable to MC15 and only then publish the tutorials would be wise in my eyes.

PTC had underestimated the work necessary to rewrite Mathcad/Prime and now the same happens concerning the conversion of the old tutorials and other sheets. Driving force in both cases being marketing department?

A stream of crystal clear water is better than a river of ____. I'll leave the reader to fill in the last word

Prime Juice?

(or is hoping that too naive?)

How many lifetimes are we talking about?

Hmmm, a simple 'yes' would also suffice

[RichardJ]

A stream of crystal clear water is better than a river of ____. I'll leave the reader to fill in the last word

Prime Juice?

ROFL!

[ValeryOchkov]

Roger,

My team has extensive experience to transform more than 10 000 old Mathcad sheets into Mathcad Prime form for Knovel.

We can help you.

[JohnArcher]

Well said Valery Richard and Werner! I think that the "new" Mathcad leadership has created a Prime mess and they have no interest in the old communuty.