Re: These variableS ARE undefined! Check...

ValeryOchkov · ‎Aug 01, 2017

It is not an idea - it is one question!

What do you think about it?

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

I think that given the enormous range of limitations and problems in Prime, that should be really low on the list of priorities.

vlehner · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@ValeryOchkov wrote:

See more About Mathcad PM

By using the link above, there is the error-message:

because of that, i would define "g" as constant in Prime and the others in "Mr. Minister", m1,y1,m2,y2 define as variables.

Did i understand something wrong?

If yes, than please explain your problem a bit better to receive a possible solution.

Volker

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

Did i understand something wrong?

I think so.

Valery had created many groups in the Jive forum and one of them dealt with kind of a wish list. Things he would like to see in a better version of "Prime" which for some reason he called "Prime Minister". He posted a lot of messages there usually accompanied with a fake screenshot (edited, photmontage) to show and demonstrate what feature he would like to see.

As many other private groups this one seems to be not accessible - maybe its only accessible if you take membership there, I don't know. This forum sure has its act not together yet.

The screenshot he shows simply means that he would like that Prime would show ALL errors in an expression and not only the first one it encounters. If we enter an assignment and use a couple of undefined variables as Valery did, only the first one Prime encounters during parsing is flagged red and shown as error. If you correct it and define that variable, Prime would show the next, etc. Valery would like to see all of them flagged red in the first place as his screenshot implies.

I agree with Richard that Prime lacks of so many much more important features (we will probably never get) that it seems not worth the time to think about this one.

Valery seems not to be sure either as he created a discussion and not an idea.

BTW - have you noticed that we are not allowed to vote/kudo for Mathcad ideas? Honi soit qui mal y pense 😉 No, I really think thats just one unintentional misadjustment of the forum settings - not the most important one, as I consider those ideas a placebo which should keep us happy.

vlehner · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@WernerExinger wrote:

BTW - have you noticed that we are not allowed to vote/kudo for Mathcad ideas?

No, that's new to me and as to the "MathCad ideas" i'm not familiar with.

Valery wants that all unknown Variables are highlighted (marked) as red and not one after the other when one by one is defined.

I think so too, that this desire will not really become true in this galaxis.

...maybe in exoplanets it has been working for a long time...

THX for clarifying this.

Volker

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@WernerExinger wrote:

I agree with Richard that Prime lacks of so many much more important features (we will probably never get) that it seems not worth the time to think about this one.

Does it even matter any more? They are going to a subscription model, so what we have now is probably all we will ever get under the perpetual license scheme. There is no way I am going to pay their subscription, because I will not knowingly set myself up with what, IMO, amounts to legalized ransomware.

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@RichardJ wrote:

@WernerExinger wrote:

I agree with Richard that Prime lacks of so many much more important features (we will probably never get) that it seems not worth the time to think about this one.

Does it even matter any more? They are going to a subscription model, so what we have now is probably all we will ever get under the perpetual license scheme. There is no way I am going to pay their subscription, because I will not knowingly set myself up with what, IMO, amounts to legalized ransomware.

No, it does not matter. unfortnuately our MC15 licenses are not perpetual, so with the end of 2018 I will have to quit using Mathcad altogether :-(. Can't imagine that I will use Prime Express just for fun. "Legalized ransomware" unfortunately is something we have in many other areas, too. Think of video or audio streaming services for which people pay on a monthly basis. Once they stop paying, they have .. nothing. Paying for use and not for possession. Music and software for a time limited rent. Not that I want to say that i find that great but unfortunately thats the way things have changed. When you think of cable TV we got used for quite a time to that kind of sales method. Of course in case of a software you build up your own set of worksheets which are useless once you quit paying - that kind of dependence is what concerns us and it also is whats intended.

Our Matlab license btw is time limited, too, and payed yearly 😞

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

The difference with renting music is that if I stop paying the rent I am not locked out of my own IP, just someone elses. In return for the rent you get access to a very big library, much bigger than you could afford to buy. So I have no problem with that. If I rent software, however, I get to create my own IP using it, possibly IP that is critcal to the operation of my company, and then if I stop paying the rent my IP is effectively locked up so that I can't get to it. In a case like MS Office I can live with that, because it's not very expensive, they actually do give you worthwhile upgrades, and even if I stopped paying the rent I could open all my documents using OpenOffice. Mathcad, on the other hand, is expensive, the upgrades are glacially slow, and if I stop paying the rent I am completely hosed. So it's not going to happen.

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@WernerExinger wrote:

No, it does not matter. unfortnuately our MC15 licenses are not perpetual, so with the end of 2018 I will have to quit using Mathcad altogether :-(.

If they are not perpetual you must be paying each year already, so why would yuo have to stop using Mathcad at the end of 2018?

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@RichardJ wrote:

@WernerExinger wrote:

No, it does not matter. unfortnuately our MC15 licenses are not perpetual, so with the end of 2018 I will have to quit using Mathcad altogether :-(.

If they are not perpetual you must be paying each year already, so why would yuo have to stop using Mathcad at the end of 2018?

It was a special license valid for 4 years and we decided already more than 2 years ago that Mathcad will be a dead end which will have to be replaced. So being forced to pay on a regular basis is not the main reason for the change, rather the non-existent future perspective of the program. We doubt that Prime will ever be usable enough to replace MC15 and we see that PTC has no intention to go that way.

vlehner · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@WernerExinger wrote:

Our Matlab license btw is time limited, too, and payed yearly 😞

Now I'm testing Maple, do you know if they are time limited as well with payment yearly?

As to software companies and pay-TV and all that rubbish i say:

I payed about 1800 bucks for the mega-underdeveloped MPrime x.y.z to realize that i bought a ransomware at least.

Thank you PTC- You are the best and i love you now from the bottom of my heart.

...All the fools sailed away...

heart attack

EDIT: I found an adequate songtext from the heavy metal legend Ronnie James Dio who passed the way in 2010

"All The Fools Sailed Away" Text composed by Ronnie James Dio

Volker

ValeryOchkov · ‎Aug 01, 2017

@vlehner wrote:

@WernerExinger wrote:

Our Matlab license btw is time limited, too, and payed yearly 😞

Now I'm testing Maple

May be this is one help for you

http://www.maplesoft.com/applications/Author.aspx?mid=213673

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

Now I'm testing Maple, do you know if they are time limited as well with payment yearly?

No, I don't. I also don't know which flavor of licenses Matlab offers - they may still have a perpetual license available, too.

I guess the combination of Matlab and Maple can make a nice Mathcad replacement. More ready made sheets for many purposes and more and stronger built-in functions in Matlab and a much better symbolics in Maple. Nevertheless I will miss hardly the look and feel of Mathcad and of course the unrivaled selfducumenting whiteboard interface.

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

I may switch to Smath for scratch pad calculations. The graphing used to be terrible, but maybe it's improved now. I haven't looked at it in a long time.

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

I never had tried SMath for long and its also a long time ago I did last. I guess the current version still is a 0.9xx.

I always got the impression that SMath lacks a lot of functionality while on the other hand it had features which should haven been in Mathcad but never were implemented.

Plotting sure is not the strongest side of SMath (even Primes beats SMath in that respect) but there are addons which enable better plotting functionality.

I sure will give SMath another try sooner or later.

RichardJ · ‎Aug 01, 2017

Maybe we'll see each other over on the forums there. There are several of the old Mathcad crowd from the Collab over there (including jmg). Some of them were wise enough to give up on Mathcad years ago

Werner_E · ‎Aug 01, 2017

I remember jmg getting banned in the new PTC forum soon after the switch over from the old collab. Maybe he is still moaning about anything not being MC11 and emphasises how superior MC11 is.

Wonder if Tom Gutman still uses MC - he left the forum also after the switch to PTC's forum after some troubles with login. I consider him a big loss for the community.

I must confess that I never explored the SMath forums - guess I should.

The lack of any care when switching to the new forum should have been a serious warning. And even though there was already the fear that Mathcad was to be buried, we still hoped.

RichardJ · ‎Aug 02, 2017

I have not really explored the Smath forums either. I have used Smath for no more than 1 hour, total. I just noticed that some of the old Mathcad crowd are (or were?) over there. jmg and Uni spring to mind right now, but I think there were (or are?) others too.

Werner_E · ‎Aug 02, 2017

I am not sure if Uni ever used this nick in the forum here (and I would have to search here to spell his name V. M. correctly) but as far as I remember his routines for implicit 2D and 3D plotting as well as his Maple hacks for MC11 were quite spectacular. Think he was always more present in the russian Mathcad forums and when I looked at SMath tha last time I saw he contributed already a lot to SMath.

Guess I sure should give SMath a closer look in the near future.

mvenich · ‎Aug 02, 2017

Now I'm testing Maple, do you know if they are time limited as well with payment yearly?

Maplesoft sell perpetual and time-limited licenses.

vlehner · ‎Aug 02, 2017

THX!

Volker