vector image insertion and manipulation

[willq]

Greetings -- (I did some searching, but didn't find this exact discussion -- apologies in advance if it exists)

Before mathcad, I used excel almost exclusively. I would create calculations, and a simple diagrams explaining what my parameters were. I didn't need a parametrized sketch (a la smartsketch, or other linked object). My sketches were crude, but fast, tweakable, and self-contained with my calculations.

Along these lines -- I would *love* to be able to create and manipulate simple, dumb, vector sketches within Mathcad. Barring creation, it would be great at least to be able to tweak vector images I've pasted-special from (say) excel -- drag, resize, edit text, etc for individual entities within a vector image (even if created elsewhere). Is there a way to accomplish this, via a plugin, or otherwise? (I'm running Mathcad 2001i professional -- perhaps this functionality exists in later versions?)

Thanks in advance,

--Will

[f.kohlhepp]

Sorry!

Sketching capability has been missing (and requested) in MathCad for a long time. It does not exist up through version 14. (I doubt it's in 15, but I don't know.) Closest I've seen is the ability to embed SmartSketch into MatbhCad and link to the sketch; very cumbersome, very buggy, not what you're looking for.

[willq]

Well, drat.

I've often had to revert to other tools (whether excel, or my good old fashioned design notebook) over Mathcad because of my I knew I needed to sketch, and wanted to keep all my calcs and information in one place. Sketching was the missing piece. I was hoping it was just my lack of saavy...

What's more, when I've returned to some Mathcad tool I've made, precious time can be lost trying to remember what my parameters are.

Mathcad would likely become my go-to tool for calcs, etc. if I could *really* treat it like a notebook...

Thanks for the information Fred.

--Will

[f.kohlhepp]

I have resorted to sketching (in the tool of your choice) and pasting a picture into MathCad.

MathCad is too valuable and usefull to stop using because it can't draw!

[MikeArmstrong]

Fred Kohlhepp wrote:

MathCad is too valuable and usefull to stop using because it can't draw!

Fred,

Mathcad is too valuable and useful to stop using because it can't draw, but PTC should have implemented a drawing tool in M15, if not M15, then defiantly Mathcad Prime 1.0.

Mike

[jeanGiraud]

>Mathcad is too valuable and useful to stop using because it can't draw, but PTC should have implemented a drawing tool in M15, if not M15, then defiantly Mathcad Prime 1.0.< [Mike]

______________________________________

The point you are missing Mike, is that the smallest minimal vector graphic package would already be a very huge component of Mathcad. Probably resulting in reducing Mathcad speed and otherwise efficiency. Up to few years ago, there was no "little graphic " on the market, only pro packages. A graphic package is a data base system + the Bézier maths ++++. A gear box is not a gear box if it does not have gears inside and working .

Jean

[MikeArmstrong]

jean Giraud wrote:

The point you are missing Mike, is that the smallest minimal vector graphic package would already be a very huge component of Mathcad. Probably resulting in reducing Mathcad speed and otherwise efficiency. Up to few years ago, there was no "little graphic " on the market, only pro packages. A graphic package is a data base system + the Bézier maths ++++. A gear box is not a gear box if it does not have gears inside and working .

Jean

Jean,

Fair point if a vector package inside Mathcad would reduce speed or efficiency. Even a drawing tools similar to Excel would be sufficient as starters. Maybe even try and scale the drawing from calculated values within the worksheet. If a drawing is produced, say to display the required trench width for a pipeline, the calculated value could be used to automatically draw the trench.

This would save a lot of time editing in Excel or whichever software which was used.

Mike

[RichardJ]

The point you are missing Mike, is that the smallest minimal vector graphic package would already be a very huge component of Mathcad. Probably resulting in reducing Mathcad speed and otherwise efficiency.

Rubbish.

Some basic drawing tools would require a minimal amount of extra disk space for the required DLL(s), and would have a negligible effect on the performance of Mathcad.

[jeanGiraud]

>Some basic drawing tools would require a minimal amount of extra disk space for the required DLL(s), and would have a neglible effect on the performance of Mathcad.< [Richard]

____________________________

Not completely wrong: my version of Intellicad is 20MB only.

Why has it been refused for years ?

The spell check does not have "negligible" !!!

[RichardJ]

Not completely wrong: my version of Intellicad is 20MB only.

Why has it been refused for years ?

Intellicad is much more than just a few drawing tools though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "refused". Refused by who or what?

The spell check does not have "negligible" !!!

Oops! Thanks for the typo catch. Guess I should use the spell checker more often!

It does actually have negligible, but if you type "neglible" it can't find the correct word. Neither can the Word 2000 spell checker though, so I'm not going to make an issue of it.

[jeanGiraud]

>I'm not sure what you mean by "refused". Refused by who or what ? <

_____________________

What was refused, in the context of the thread, is a minimal graphic package resident in Mathcad for drawing sketches directly in the work sheet or like in ORIGINLAB some minimal arrows and the likes. I remember suggesting a menu . Steen was the collab raising that feature in the former Mathcad collab.

[RichardJ]

OK, I understand.

And yes, this topic came up several times in the Collab!

[RichardJ]

MathCad is too valuable and usefull to stop using because it can't draw!

I agree. The lack of sketching capability is annoying, but a Mathcad worksheet with a graphic that was created wih another tool pasted into it is still far closer to a notebook than anything else out there. Especially, when compared to Excel it is not even close!

[MikeArmstrong]

Will,

As Fred suggests, there are no sketching capability within the recent versions of Mathcad. In the past I have used Powerpoint, Excel......etc to produce my sketches and then insert into Mathcad - This process can become a little tedious if you are constantly updating calc's and need to constantly change the sketch.

For simple sketches I have used an embedded Excel component. Variables can be passed and displayed in Excel and also updated within the calc itself. Good if you want to dimension a generic sketch where the dimensions are more important than the scale of the sketch itself.

Mike

[jeanGiraud]

There is longggggg web survey about image to vector converters. The solution is a pro version $. Often the zoom function from Improc does a good reduction. What does e-Drawing ? What's the relationship PTC/e-Drawing ? ... The PTC banner is one of them in e-Drawing. You don't have much zooming from *.PDF but not bad either for reducing. If you would have few "sketches modules" and/or enough patience, you can use De Casteljau nurbs to draw your items . At this point, they are scalable and resident as a Mathcad item ... how to fill those Mathcad objects ? Don't know.

jmG

[willq]

Thanks jmg --

I'm unfamiliar with (but just did some surfing on) De Casteljau nurbs. Is there an ability within matchad to draw / manipulate such curves? Expand a little -- I'm interested in what you allude to.

--Will

[jeanGiraud]

William Pong wrote:

Thanks jmg --

I'm unfamiliar with (but just did some surfing on) De Casteljau nurbs. Is there an ability within matchad to draw / manipulate such curves? Expand a little -- I'm interested in what you allude to.

--Will

The first part of the attached is the DeCasteljau construct of a discontinuous scalable contour. It shows how much a minimal CAD data base can built up . Here, we assign the coordinates, in a CAD the coordinates are read from the screen and thus driving the data base of the shape. The Moulinet and Orifice plate are Excel 97 made, They are not "SVG style" quality scalable, but still very acceptable @ 0 $ and quick. I give the link for 969 free CAD. If you try some, please let us know your appreciation.

jmG

[willq]

Thanks jmG --

I'm a bit unclear. Sorry to be a bit of a noob on this stuff, and requiring a bit more pedantic explanation...

1. How exactly were these graphics created and then placed in mathcad (with excel97)?

2. How does one use "ImageMatricClipboardOperation"

3. What exactly is the Improc pack? (is it a separate download for $$, a separate install, etc)

Thanks for the patience. Trying to do this research on the side, in between other pressures at work (I regret having little time to really jump in and do a bunch of research on the web).

--Will

[willq]

Thanks for this, Mike --

Learning always -- (just did some experimenting upon reading your comment) Embedded objects may be more useful than I first thought.

Question1: Does creating a new embedded excel object create any external references? (ie, does this generate any other files / entities that need to be managed? It looks like the answer is 'no' -- which is good! Such self-containment is crucial for me (so I can create a mathcad worksheet and know that everything is right there, no separate files to keep track of).

If this self-containment is consistent for other embedded object-types, it opens possibilities. Which leads to question #2:

Question2: I note that when I "insert > object," there is a list of applications that comes up. Do you know how to add to that list new applications / object-types? My thought: If I can find a small vector-graphics software, I could install that software, and enable embedding objects from that software (if excel is unavailable).

--Will

[MikeArmstrong]

William Pong wrote:

Thanks for this, Mike --

Learning always -- (just did some experimenting upon reading your comment) Embedded objects may be more useful than I first thought.

Question1: Does creating a new embedded excel object create any external references? (ie, does this generate any other files / entities that need to be managed? It looks like the answer is 'no' -- which is good! Such self-containment is crucial for me (so I can create a mathcad worksheet and know that everything is right there, no separate files to keep track of).

If this self-containment is consistent for other embedded object-types, it opens possibilities. Which leads to question #2:

Question2: I note that when I "insert > object," there is a list of applications that comes up. Do you know how to add to that list new applications / object-types? My thought: If I can find a small vector-graphics software, I could install that software, and enable embedding objects from that software (if excel is unavailable).

--Will

Will,

Question 1 - There are no external references created with a embedded excel object within Mathcad. The beauty of the function is the ability to create result tables which clients can understand and are easy on the eye. In my opinion PTC has failed with this aspect so far, but looking at the new release of Prime have made a step forward at least.

Question 2 - My gut feeling is no. I'm not a 100% sure though so maybe someone from PTC can enlighten us.

Mike

[RichardJ]

William Pong wrote:

Question2: I note that when I "insert > object," there is a list of applications that comes up. Do you know how to add to that list new applications / object-types? My thought: If I can find a small vector-graphics software, I could install that software, and enable embedding objects from that software (if excel is unavailable).

--Will

If the application supports OLE then when it is installed it will create the correct registry entries, and you will see it in the list of available applications. If it is not in the list then you can't add it manually.

If you move the Mathcad sheet to another computer without the application you may or may not be able to see the graphic (it seems to depend on the application). You will not be bale to edit it even if you can see it.

I've attached a file with a CorelDraw graphic embedded, so you can check if you can see it. You can get a copy of CorelDraw on Amazon for under $100.

[willq]

Thanks for this Mike -- I'm running 2001i Professional -- I believe this is causing a glitch -- can't open, and in fact, the file crashes my mathcad session. Any chance you can save in 2001i or earlier format?

Also, thanks for the information re. OLE. Mentally noted, and will be a factor as I look for best path forward.

--Will

[RichardJ]

Here it is in 2001i format.

[willq]

Thanks Richard -- I was able to see the graphic. Interesting. As an aside, I note that the face wasn't smiling =]. Perhaps you intended a sort of "mouth-open-aghast-that-mathcad-doesn't-have-built-in-vector-graphic-sketching-capacity-look." =].

Helpful info. Thanks!

--Will

[RichardJ]

William Pong wrote:

Thanks Richard -- I was able to see the graphic.

I thought you would, but it's good to have that confirmed. So if you get yourself a cheap copy of CorelDraw you are all set. Both Amazon and Ebay have old versions for sale for under $100, and unless your artistic skills are a great deal better than mine an old version will do everything you need. I use version 10, which is so old I didn't even see it on Amazon when I looked!

Interesting.

My math skills are better than my artistic skills 🙂

As an example of what is possible, here's a real graphic I put together in corelDraw. Embedding an image like this does make for a large Mathcad file, but it's a complex graphic with transparency and shading. (The size is about the same whether it's embedded as a CorelDraw object or a metafile).

[jeanGiraud]

Will,

There is no problem in what I understand you are asking for. You can go quite a distance making sketches in Excel, paste in Mathcad as default Metafile and then you can stretch as you wish. The Microsoft Excel Metafile is a kind of vector drawing. What's missing in the this proposal and way of doing is the aspect ratio data. The aspect ratio is a tool in ORIGINLAB and that enables to scale the pasted metafile object in ORIGINLAB. The same feature is missing in Mathcad. What about Microsift Vision if you don't want to spent too maby $ for little sketches. Another way high pro of doing is using "Intellicad". Intellicad used to be freeware, totally compatible with AutoCad. Mathcad 11 and 2001i was compatible with Mathcad .

jmG