What's the difference between opengl and win32_gdi graphics settings

[sf]

If I set GRAPHICS OPENGL in config.pro the part or assembly will look great, mouse manipulations, moves, zooms, spins, mouse clicks etc..will work great lightning fast. But when I let go of the mouse, the part or assembly redraws itself bit by bit, line by line, part by part which is annoying, slow, and not the way it should be.

If I set GRAPHICS WIN32_GDI in config.pro the part or assembly will look great, however, now mouse manipulations, moves, zooms, spins, mouse clicks etc...will lag and be glitchy and take a couple seconds to catch up. But now, the problem with the part or assembly redrawing itself is gone and when I let go of the mouse the part or assembly instantly appears when the mouse is released, like problem gone...except for the new lag problem that is now present.

Does anyone know anything about this and why the two settings act the way they do?

Thanks for any help I can get.

Specs: proe2001 - same problem both machines.

Machine 1: windows vista x64 with 8gb ram, core2 quad Q6700 cpu, NVIDIA geforce 9800gtx graphic card 500mb video ram, built around 2008 maybe.

Machine 2: windows 8.1 x64 with 64gb ram, core i7-5960x cpu, dual NVIDIA geforce gtx980 graphic card 4gb video ram each, running single or sli, built in 2014-15. Smoking Hot.

All drivers etc....are completely up to date and the latest available for the given hardware.

[Chris3]

OpenGL uses your graphics card. Win_32gdi bypasses your graphics card and uses your processor. Win_32gdi was never meant for use other than for troubleshooting if a bug is related to your graphics card.

[mdebower]

Even though you are using the latest drivers, they may not be the ones you want.  On PTC's site they list the "certified drivers"   and they might on your graphics card manufacturer's website as well.   You may want to try reverting to one of those drivers to see if that helps.

I agree with Christopher, you definitely want to use OPENGL for the best performance.

-marc

[sf]

Thanks to all...OPENGL is what I always have used in the past and what you said is pretty much what I thought. OPENGL works perfect in all aspects of the proe2001 on my new machine except for that very annoying redraw problem.

I understand it must be graphic and driver related as you stated, but where do I find a list of certified drivers or graphics cards. Both of my new machines are a lot newer than proe2001 and proe2001 was probably decommissioned long before these graphics cards were even invented.

Basically then, my graphics cards or their drivers are too advanced for proe2001 and proe2001 doesn't know how to communicate with the cards to get them to do what proe2001 wants them to do. Yet, everything works brilliantly between proe2001 and the new computers and graphics cards except for just aspect....the way proe2001 tells the graphics cards how to redraw the parts and assemblies after view changes.

On the windows 8.1 x64 with 64gb ram, core i7-5960x cpu, dual NVIDIA geforce gtx980 graphic card 4gb video ram each machine the WIN32_GDI driver is almost acceptable, because of 64gb ram probably, but still not correct therefore I have to stick with this and figure out a remedy. I've never been closer than now, mainly cause the wife wants the xp machine gone like yesterday, so I'm more motivated now for a solution before it's gone. Otherwise I'll just stick with the program the way it is and if I ever find a solution then ok.

I really thought is was just going to be something simple as a changing a setting in the NVIDIA control panel for my graphics card to fix this problem.???

It's just hard to fathom my old xp machine with geforce 7300 256mb graphics card (~$75) can render all pro2001 graphics perfectly yet my geforce gtx980 4gb ram graphics card (~$500) can't??? Not to mention $1000 processor, $300 mobo, and $700 worth of memory. Didn't see that coming! Not that I was looking really but thought I was going to be covered for anything. My 2001 laptop doesn't have this problem.

So does someone know where the list of certified drivers and hardware is for proe2001 or any pro program for that matter?

[Chris3]

PTC stopped supporting 2001 10+ years ago. There is no supported hardware anymore. Product Calendar:

http://support.ptc.com/cs/product_calendar/PTC_Product_Calendar.htm#RANGE!A212

Below is a link to the supported hardware for newer releases.

Platform Support - PTC.com

You have to pick the vendor of your machine. For instance this is for Dell with Creo 3:

http://support.ptc.com/WCMS/files/162683/en/dell_creo3.pdf

[sf]

Thanks Christopher-

I couldn't see the link in your first line because I don't have any maintenance agreement so ptc wouldn't allow access? The other info is very useful, although how helpful is tbd, but it may lead to a solution eventually. I have some old nvidia geforce graphics cards I may play around with?? Not sure they are compatible though?

From what I can see, ptc pretty much only supported 2 geforce graphics cards during the proe2001 hey days as it looks like quadro cards are only on the list ever after mostly for the newer programs. Plus my geforce card in my xp machine is not on the list but works like a champ. Heck my built in video in my laptop works like a champ.

So, I think it could be a driver thing but just because proe2001 runs so good on my newest computer except for that one redraw problem, it could be more of an OPENGL thing. For some reason proe2001 tells my new card which supports OPENGL 4+ to redraw 'one at a time' when proe2001 is in OPENGL mode and tells my new card to redraw 'all at once' when in WIN32_GDI mode. WIN32_GDI redraws 'all at once' but spin, zoom, move is laggy. So basically, the cpu redraws 'all at once' and gpu redraws 'one at a time'.

Thanks again, I'm still listening if anyone has any ideas. I know proe2001 is old and out dated and should be shelved, but its all I got for the time being.

[David_M]

Where are PTC's certified drivers? AMD's latest is not doing me any favours.

[sf]

PTC doesn't actually supply the drivers....correct? The 'graphics drivers' come from the video card manufacturer like NVIDIA or AMD or ATI, etc...and I don't think they are anything specific to proe, other than after install in the 'video card' control panel, like NVIDIA control panel, users can tweak stuff their but haven't got anything to change anyway.

That said, I still don't see any specific settings in the video card control panel, proe2001 config.pro, or any setting controls anywhere, that address the redraw 'all at once'  versus redraw 'one at a time' issue.

I still think that given the shear power of my new win8.1 x64 machine, I can probably live the slow redraw issue if I have too....which it looks like we may.

Thanks again.

[rzukowski]

In OPENGL mode, try turning on Fast Hidden Lines Removal (fasthlr).  It's under File-Options-Model Display.

[sf]

Thanks, but already tried....and no luck.

I think something changed in the OPENGL extensions between revision 2 and 3 somewhere and the newer nvidia geforce drivers must not be completely backward compatible...???

It has to be something with the way proe2001 instructs the graphics card to draw the vectors and such and there must be a difference in the older OPENGL versus the newer OPENGL and the backward compatibility....I wouldn't think it, but it must be???

Thanks for the idea though...keep em coming, please!

[sf]

I see 3 possibilities:

1- OPENGL

2- Graphics Drivers

3- Both

Proe2001 only has so many settings that the end user has control over. Therefore, given my version of proe2001 hasn't changed since I installed it on the old xp machine thru the vista machine to finally my win8.1 machine...it only leaves something in OPENGL or the graphics drivers that has changed. I really thought that stuff was suppose to be backward compatible.

I guess I need to learn how to make my own graphics driver or change OPENGL somehow. For now I'll have to rely on the shear power of my new computer to get through the redraw issue. Not the best solution, but maybe the only one.

[dgschaefer]

Keep in mind that 2001 was well before your graphics card & operating system.  Heck, it was before the prior operating system (Windows 7) too and maybe the one before that (Vista).  Have you tried instructing Windows to run Proe in compatibility mode?  Windows compatibility mode may help Windows 8.1 & Proe 2001 get along better.  It may not help, but it's worth a shot.

Here's an article on compatibility mode in Windows 8.1:

Make older programs compatible with this version of Windows - Windows Help

[sf]

Thanks but already tried all of that, but appreciate the help.  Proe2001 has big time trouble even loading in win8.1 when set to any type of compatibility and in win vista will load but not any different. So I dont think compatibility is the problem anyway because it runs fine in normal, it just redraws slow. It has to be something with OPENGL or graphic drivers or both.

Proe2001 definitely wasn't written for vista or win7, 8, or 10 and on top of that probably not x64 either, but it still runs really good in those later operating systems and even x64 since those os's are mostly backward compatible...MS did something right. I've gotten programs off old floppys for win3.1 and loaded them onto win8.1 and they worked....so as far as proe2001 goes, I would say it works 99.99% on win8.1 x64 and the redraw issue, being the only issue I have run into so far, would be the 0.01% anomaly.

I'm hoping someone knows of what changed in OPENGL over the years because I'm sticking most of my eggs into that basket. And then maybe I can figure out how to fix it.

Thanks again and HAPPY THANKSGIVING to ALL!

[mpodgorsek]

Hi.

This is real problem you mentioned. The only way to work normaly now in PROE2001 is to use Win XP X86 or Win XP X64.

In windows environment Vista, Win7, etc problem is in library OPENGL32.DLL.

I have downloaded many variants and replaced in directory C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Opengl32.DLL.

Some variants works well durin refreshing, other works well during spinning parts.

I have finded out, that some "gamers" write his own Opengl32.dll for some special games, but no one works fine with PROE 2001.

Because of this problem I need to use Win XP 64. Other Proe versions (Wildfire, Creo) are not usable becuse too slow and to complicated user interface.

I have also tested to copy XP library to Win7, but not works.

Do you know any enthusiastic programmer to write down usable Opengl32.Dll for Win7?

Thanks

[sf]

Hi Matjaz

Sorry to see someone else with same problem. I like proe2001 and don't want to upgrade software. Thanks for the reply and lead to correct the problem. Maybe someone will eventually fix. I don't know any gamers or anyone that could write that code. Thanks again.

[BenLoosli]

Pro/e 2001 has been obsolete for over 12 years!!!!

You will not find compatible graphics cards or drivers in a current computer.

I personally don't see how anyone can still be productive in a system that is that old. Pro/E, Wildfire, Creo are not a word processor or spreadsheet program where most of the changes are to the format the file is stored in and the UI for what is perceived to be a more ergonomic look and feel. There have been many changes to the code that have made Creo better and faster than 2001 was back in its day.

[mpodgorsek]

OK. Wildfire and also Creo are great modeler software. You can model quality edge and surfaces. But user interface is absolutely invalid.

In Proe 2001 you choose coomand and then exactly choose vertex, edge, surface, feature etc. This is possible with function query selection. This is very usable in large assemblies with many same edges, but this edges belongs to different parts. Wildfire and Creo user interface remove this  great function. So in Creo you need first choose edge or pont or surface, then you choose command. But this automatic selection is stupid. Software wants to suggest you geometry that I do not want to deal with it. I am realy tired after using Creo more than 1 hour. Proe 2001 is harmony. No automatic preselection, everything works exatly as I wish. Automatic geometry preselection is also great problem in other modeler software: NX, SolidWorks, SolidEdge, Inventor...  I have tried many of them, but I was disapointed.  In complex engeneering I need realy exatly geometry selection. One mistake can cause huge problem during regeneration.

Well. I know many engineers, that use PROE2001 for work. They have installed Creo only to show "Head of company" how they are "modern", behind this they are modeling with PROE2001.

Now it is time for PTC to develop better user interface (simmilar to PROE2001). This is very important for the future of this quality modeler software...

[MartinHanak]

Hi Matjaz,

I did quick test to satisfy my curiosity .

I installed ProE 2001 2005030 32-bit, opened assemblies in demos sub-directory and tested - zooming, rotating, panning, drawing creation ... I did not mention slow response during testing.

PC configuration:

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

NVIDIA Quadro K600 (Driver Version 9.18.13.1166 released on 14.5.2013)

Screen Resolution 1680x1050

MH

[mpodgorsek]

Slow 2D refreshing is problematical on complex parts (curves, sphere surfaces).  I can send you real complex part for testing... Send me your e-mail.

Maybe Quadro K series better calculate edges... Quadro card series before K series are not sucessfull. Even Quadro 5000 is not sucessfull.

I think, there must be problem with OpenGl32.Dll.

Thank you for testing.

[MartinHanak]

Hi,

if you can provide your model for all community members, then you use How to Attach a File to a Discussion Reply procedure.

MH

[mpodgorsek]

Thank you Martin to inform me, how to uploading files.

Here is one problematic part. This is extract from mould, native geometry was produced with NX. Now click on part and edges will slowly become red... Then click on free space and part will slowly become clear. This is openGL problem we talk about with SF. There is no problem with XP or XP 64.

Thank you for testing.

[sf]

Unfortunately I cant test the part because I am running Proe 2001 Student. Also, even though the regen problem is evident with parts, it's not until working with assemblies that it becomes a real problem. Parts are still a problem but manageable with patience. Almost no level of patience make working with assemblies fun...the regen problem is so slow in assemblies...and I have a monster machine compared to what was considered a monster back in 2001, its like comparing old calculators to new cell phones. I should be smoking proe on any windows operating system past XP. The two machines I am currently running is Vista 64 and Win 10 x64 and both have the regen problem. So is it x64 the problem or the new operating system or something else? But proe2001 student works better on win xp x32 with 2GB ram on a crappy old video card with 256MB ram and pentium processor.

[MartinHanak]

Hi,

unfortunately ... when testing your model test_part2.prt, I can see the behavior you described, this means ...

• click on part and edges will slowly become red...
• click on free space and part will slowly become clear...

I give up another testing .

MH

[sf]

Thanks for taking the time to test this problem. I understand what you are saying and I think you need to try one more test.

To be clear, I don't have any problem with spinning zooming panning or any manipulation until I release the mouse button.

So when I first ctrl click the assembly to do the intended manipulation I can then do the spinning panning zooming etc...with perfect response and the assembly stays whole and looks great and resolute while manipulating.....but when I release the mouse button the assembly then blanks out and completely regens itself line by line part by part surface by surface etc....

In win Xp, on the old machine, when I release the mouse button the assemble stays in place and regens in a blink of an eye almost and probably completely unnoticeable. That's what the problem is and that's what needs testing. Thanks again for all the help.

[JonathanHodgson]

Matjaz Podgorsek wrote:

In Proe 2001 you choose coomand and then exactly choose vertex, edge, surface, feature etc. This is possible with function query selection... Wildfire and Creo user interface remove this  great function.

Just turn off 'pre-selection highlighting'.  We did this about five minutes after we upgraded to Wildfire... then the old query select functionality still works just fine.

There's a similar option with PSH still switched on, in fact - just tap RMB to toggle through selections - but we didn't like the highlighting visual either.

You may occasionally need to change the 'filter' setting at the bottom right, but this can be helpful, for example setting it to 'quilt' when selecting to create a merge.

[mpodgorsek]

Hi. I think main problem of unusable Wildfire and Creo user interface is solved!!!.

Now is possible to work with this software.

Thank you very much!

[sf]

Can someone solve my problem now since I don't have the newer software. I used to use Solid Works years ago but I didn't own the software so I don't have it now to use anyway. Thanks a lot for the bounce.

[dguillette-2]

I have been running nvidia quadro cards for 20ish years, and  never had the pleasure of owning a geforce card.

So when it comes to geforce drivers and ProE, I have no clue.

...but... I'll take two shots into the dark. Please note this info is going back to around 2007

if the geforce drivers include nView, disable it or even better uninstall it

if your running (2) displays, find your way into settings and set

global profile: "base profile"

settings: multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration, set the drop-down to "multi display performance mode"

[BenLoosli]

Have you tried installing a virtual machine on your computer that emulates a 32-bit Win XP OS?

I'm not a virtual machine expert or fan, but that may be your answer since that is what ProE 2001 was designed for,

[sf]

Sounds like a tempting idea....I know nothing about virtual machines unfortunately...I'll have to study up on this idea. Something to look in to more deeply. Thanks