Need to upgrade our Windchill very soon, but which version do we go to?

[doehr]

Hi all,

We have Windchill PDMLink version 10.1 datecode M040, which according to PTC's release calendar falls out of standard support THIS MONTH. However, I'm having real trouble deciding which version to go to;

• Version 10.2 has been around for a while and the later datecodes I believe have all of the main bugs worked out, but all 10.2 versions expire in only one year (Sept 2017). That isn't really long enough.
• Version 11.0 datecode F000 is supported up to December 2019, but it was only released at the end of last year. I've seen first-hand that earlier releases can have problems (for example, Change Task Sequencing was initially said to work in 10.1 M040 but turns out it completely doesn't even with a patch, but later versions do have it functioning).

So, my main question primarily for anyone here who may have already installed 11.0:

IS IT STABLE?

More specifically,

• Does every new little function they say it can do actually work?
• How much control do we the users/administrators get over that Cloud setup, i.e. could I remote into the main server desktop and edit configurations whenever I want like I do now with our current version, and would I still have access to all of those Org and Site administrator menus for full data object setup?
• I've heard stories from my fellow IT members that Cloud servers are notoriously unsecure and easy to hack. What exactly are the enhanced security measures in place for one of these Cloud setups that would make it at least equal to our current hardware setups/firewalls/routers etc?
• Has anyone had any issues with slow or crashing connections?

Or is it safer for us to go to 10.2 (and if so which one) and wait for at least the M010 release of 11.0 scheduled for June?

Please advise,

Daryl

[BenPerry]

The Critical Patch Sets should help drive fixes into the software much quicker, so a F000 release is much less risky than in the past.

But ... we'll see, right?  I'm not going to be naive.  It will need to be proven, of course, that F000 can start to be a relevant version of the software as long as CPS were provided.

[Darrell]

I've never used 11.0. I've only seen demos. But, if I were in your position, I would start planning and working for a June upgrade to 11.0 M010. I would avoid any intermediate steps and skip 10.2. If you want to go sooner, I would go to 11.0 F000 and the latest CPS (02 is supposed to be released today). Upgrading takes time. But, I also don't think the support end dates mean that much, at least until extended support ends. I have always been able to get support even though we were a bit past the standard end date and never paid for extended support. I consider it safe because the vast majority of bugs are fixed and the support documentation is complete before the support end date.

[doehr]

The main thing I'm concerned about is the significantly increased cost of being in extended support, which is why I'm asking.

[ChrisPLM]

I agree,  I was in the situation in the past where support theoretically was no longer supported but as PTC knew we were planning to upgrade they were happy to support us during the migration that lasted longer than expected for various reasons (not related to PTC)

Daryl, I would not worry that the support ends this month but tell PTC what you are doing 

[doehr]

But did they bump up the cost for that extended support?

[NATHANBROWN]

We just got a quote to extend our Windchill 10.1 support and it is $868 for 16 users, not too bad to gain us a year. Our plan is to upgrade to WC 11.0 M010 later this year.

[doehr]

Good to know...but we have over 10 times that many users .

[BenLoosli]

When upgrading to a new release, I have never paid for the extended maintenance and still received support for WinDU issues that needed resolved for the upgrade.

The last upgrade I did from 9.1 to 10.0 was 4 months past the end of extended support for 9.1.

[Darrell]

Same here. As long as any support you may need is covered by existing SPR's or patches then you'll get support past the end date.

[BjoernRueegg]

My suggestion is, make the test upgrade to 11 F000, test it and if everything is fine, do it. Otherwise wait for M010. I belief since not that much has changed, the F000 will be stable enough. At the end I would plan to go to 11.0M020. This version has long-term CPS support which F000 and M010 has not.

[BenPerry]

Bjoern Rueegg‌,

That is a good point.  CPS will be provided for M020 much longer than F000 & M010.

[doehr]

Hmm...this has all been very good feedback.

I'd like to push this a bit further. ANYONE who has installed version 11.0 datecode F000 (and who finds this post), please, any and every issue or broken feature that you might have found on it, please post it here.

[mpersson]

You have support on your 10.1 M040 as long as you pay maintenence for it. What you get with extended support is the possibility to get SPRs for one additional year.

[STEVEG]

I too would be very interested to know what anyone thinks about 11 if they installed it.

[TomU]

How much control do we the users/administrators get over that Cloud setup, i.e. could I remote into the main server desktop and edit configurations whenever I want like I do now with our current version, and would I still have access to all of those Org and Site administrator menus for full data object setup?

I'm not understanding this question.  Windchill 11.0 has the same basic structure as 10.2 with some fixes and new features.  You can still install and manage it locally.  PTC does offer a hosted version (cloud based), but you don't have to go that way (and probably wouldn't if you already have your own system.)

[doehr]

Just considering options. We are going more global and connection speeds are becoming an issue, we are considering mirror servers at the moment but I also want to know how safe (and accessible to our admins) a Cloud setup would be which I believe would allow for faster world-wide connections.

[bsindelar]

The general best practice in my experience is to try and wait for at least the M020 build for any new point release of Windchill.

Reading this thread, it sounds like the question is driven by a time urgency due to support for version 10.1 M040.  I agree with Magnus that as long as you are paying maintenance then PTC should be supporting the system at least at a basic level, which is why I would advocate against running through 2 upgrade processes in a relatively short time frame (within 12 months or less).

I have a few additional questions:

1. Are there any other drivers toward the time frame of the upgrade?
2. Are there any other drivers BESIDES time frame (features of newer version, looking to also rehost or virtualize, etc)?
3. Have you addressed your app server OS compatibility?
4. Are you planning to do this upgrade in-house or contract a service partner to handle it?

You also mention the fact that your company is going global and you used the term "mirror" sites.  Are you familiar with the concept of replica servers?  These are used to make copies of file vault content via rules that can govern what content goes to which replica site(s) and when.  The replica sites dramatically reduce download/upload time of content and is the primary method of increasing global performance, while the master site remains as the site serving up web pages, since web page content size is much smaller comparatively and typically does not factor into speed issues provided that networking infrastructure at both master and replica site(s) is up to snuff.

[doehr]

Hi Bob,

I believe replica servers are what are meant by our mirror sites, that's just the term my boss has been using. As for your other questions:

1) Not really

2) Several, such as new capabilities compared to our current version, being able to upgrade our versions of IE and Java that we've had to hold due to compatibility with 10.1 M040...time isn't the only factor, more the final straw that broke the camel's back as it were

3) Yes, in depth

4) Service partner, with a group we trust

[doehr]

Thank you everyone for your feedback, it has all been very helpful. With these plus various internal discussions we decided to go with 10.2 M030 and are in the planning stages for that.

[doehr]

Looks like this issue isn't as finished as I thought...

We ended up adding the intention of upgrading our SQL server to the 2014 version since we want to do that for the rest of our internal infrastructure. 2012, although newer than what we have, still isn't ideally new enough and PDM 10.2 M030 only really gets us 18 months. SQL 2014 is also not compatible with COGNOS, the tool used for business reporting in PDM 10.2 M030. So now, again, I have to start digging into PDM 11.

Has anyone here installed PDM 11 F000, and if so have you seen any glaring issues with it?

And on a side note, how do I remove this "Assumed Answered" tag on this thread?

Please advise,

Daryl

[RandyJones]

Daryl Oehr wrote:

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Has anyone here installed PDM 11 F000, and if so have you seen any glaring issues with it?

We upgraded (actually migrated...) from Windchill PDMLink/ProjectLink 10.2 M030-CPS12 to 11.0 F000-CPS02 Friday night Mar 18th and just updated that to CPS03 last Sunday night. No issues (with Windchill) and the new search functionalities are great.

The issues we have are not with Windchill but with Creo View

• major issue
  • performance issues with Creo View (Lite) 3.1. Almost all of our larger assemblies, with published simplified reps, cause Creo View 3.1 F000 to use 100% cpu and consume all the available system memory. This happens when attempting to switch to a simplified rep in the Viewables tab. This problem existed in Windchill 10.2 M030.
    • https://support.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/spr.jsp?n=5319840
    • The same viewables work good with Creo View 3.0 M031.
• minor issue (would be major if not for the work around)
  • Attempting to save a markup annotation set with Creo View 3.0 M031 results in:
  • "Error: A potential security problem was detected. Refresh the page and try again. If the problem persists, contact your administrator."
  • A work around for this is setting com.ptc.core.appsec.enableCSRFProtection to false:
  • https://support.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/solution.jsp?n=CS30635

[doehr]

Very good to know...anyone else?

Although side note, that SPR 5319840 gives me an error on the PTC site saying it isn't customer viewable, so I can't see any details of it.

[RandyJones]

RandyJones wrote:

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The issues we have are not with Windchill but with Creo View

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Just a follow up on this...

This performance issues we were having with Creo View 3.1 F000 have been fixed in Creo View 3.1 M010.

[BettinaGiemsa]

Hi Daryl,

you might want to talk to one of our experts in PTC Global Services. You aren’t alone with these concerns and we have just developed new, packaged offerings to help guide users like you through the upgrade process.  Visit our resource center for details and to find out if upgrading is right for you.

The URL for the Windchill Upgrade Resource Center: http://www.ptc.com/services/upgrade-windchill11

There is a designated contact form for upgrade inquiries on this page, if you would like to speak with someone. Hope this helps!

Bettina