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04-15-2011
02:37 PM

04-15-2011
02:37 PM

Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Using the cylindrical helical curve from equation option where you enter the "r, theta, and z" values, Is there any way to rotate the curve so that instead of the curve being in the XY plane it protrudes onto the XZ plane? I've attached an image that shows the curve on the default XY plane, I want the curv to run along the same axis as the threads on the part shown.

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25 REPLIES 25

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04-16-2011
02:06 AM

04-16-2011
02:06 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

You can try by creating another co-ordinate system with the desired Z direction. Select this coordinate system for your equation.

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04-17-2011
03:24 PM

04-17-2011
03:24 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

That is one way to do it that I hadn't thought about, Thanks

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04-16-2011
03:52 PM

04-16-2011
03:52 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Or just change the equations appropriately; the helix axis doesn't have to be along the Z-axis.

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04-17-2011
03:22 PM

04-17-2011
03:22 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

I tried changing the equation by replacing Z = with X = or Y = and it didn't work. Is that the right idea? What would be the correct way to modify the equation?

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04-17-2011
05:05 PM

04-17-2011
05:05 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

For example:

x=2*cos(3*t*360)

y=3*t

z=2*sin(3*t*360)

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04-17-2011
05:12 PM

04-17-2011
05:12 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Oops! I just reread your original post more closely; you were using Cylindrical coordinates, and I was thinking Cartesian. If you want to use Cylindrical coordinates, then Srinivasanlyer has given you the correct answer because Z is then the only axis available for cylindrical reference.

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06-09-2011
04:12 PM

06-09-2011
04:12 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

You can use D-H parameters (Denavit-Hartenberg aproximation) like if you use a robotic arm.

For example one rotation around X, one translation in X and one rotation of 90 degrees around X transform a single point in a circle.

If you repeat that (6 homogeneus matrix) you have a circular trayectory arround a circle (a torus coil).

x = c1*(l1 + l2*c2)

y = s1*(l1 + l2*c2)

z = l2*s2

can afect z to have an helical coil

If you repeat it again (9 homogeneus matrix) you can obtain a circle that follow a circle that follow the first circle (a coiled helix halo).

X = c1*(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)-l3*s1*s3

y = c1*l3*s3+(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)*s1

z = (c3*l3+l2)*s2

El mensaje fue editado por: Faustino Garcia

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06-09-2011
04:23 PM

06-09-2011
04:23 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

If you repeat it again (9 homogeneus matrix) you can obtain a circle that follow a circle that follow the first circle (a coiled helix halo).

X = c1*(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)-l3*s1*s3

y = c1*l3*s3+(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)*s1

z = (c3*l3+l2)*s2

El mensaje fue editado por: Faustino Garcia

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06-09-2011
05:03 PM

06-09-2011
05:03 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Very interesting, so what then are the variable s and l and how do you define them? I'm in WF 4.0 so the .zip file doesn't work with my version.

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06-09-2011
05:25 PM

06-09-2011
05:25 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

s for sin

c for cos

l is length (in this case radio)

These are the equations.

**Torus coil.**

/* For cartesian coordinate system, enter parametric equation

/* in terms of t (which will vary from 0 to 1) for x, y and z

/* For example: for a circle in x-y plane, centered at origin

/* and radius = 4, the parametric equations will be:

/* x = 4 * cos ( t * 360 )

/* y = 4 * sin ( t * 360 )

/* z = 0

/*-------------------------------------------------------------------

/*coils

n=10

/*torus radio

l1 = 25

/*coil radio

l2 = 5

/*torus total angle

omega1 = 360

/*coils total angle

omega2 = n * omega1

/* torus actual angle

teta1 = omega1*t

/*coils actual angle

teta2 = omega2*t

/* trigonometric simplifications

c1 = cos(teta1)

s1 = sin(teta1)

c2 = cos(teta2)

s2 = sin(teta2)

/* cartesian parameters

x = c1*(l1 + l2*c2)

y = s1*(l1 + l2*c2)

z = l2*s2

**Helical coil.**

/* For cartesian coordinate system, enter parametric equation

/* in terms of t (which will vary from 0 to 1) for x, y and z

/* For example: for a circle in x-y plane, centered at origin

/* and radius = 4, the parametric equations will be:

/* x = 4 * cos ( t * 360 )

/* y = 4 * sin ( t * 360 )

/* z = 0

/*-------------------------------------------------------------------

/*number of torus

n1 = 2

/*coils per torus

n2 = 40

/*torus radio

l1 = 10

/*coil radio

l2 = 2

/*torus total angle

omega1 = n1 * 360

/*coils total angle

omega2 = n2 * omega1

/* torus actual angle

teta1 = omega1*t

/*coils actual angle

teta2 = omega2*t

/* trigonometric simplifications

c1 = cos(teta1)

s1 = sin(teta1)

c2 = cos(teta2)

s2 = sin(teta2)

/* cartesian parameters

x = c1*(l1 + l2*c2)

y = s1*(l1 + l2*c2)

/* z = l2*s2

/* every torus turn z value afected by 3 coil radus

z = (l2*s2)+3*n1*l2*t

**Coiled helical halo.**

/* For cartesian coordinate system, enter parametric equation

/* in terms of t (which will vary from 0 to 1) for x, y and z

/* For example: for a circle in x-y plane, centered at origin

/* and radius = 4, the parametric equations will be:

/* x = 4 * cos ( t * 360 )

/* y = 4 * sin ( t * 360 )

/* z = 0

/*-------------------------------------------------------------------

/*helix waves in halo

n2 = 10

/*coils per helix

n3 = 10

/*halo radio

l1 = 36

/*helix radio

l2 = 6

/*coil radio

l3 = 1

/*halo total angle or speed

omega1 = 360

/*helix total angle or speed

omega2 = n2 * omega1

/*coil total angle or speed

omega3 = n3 * omega2

/* halo actual angle

teta1 = omega1*t

/*helix actual angle

teta2 = omega2*t

/*coil actual angle

teta3 = omega3*t

/* trigonometric simplifications

c1 = cos(teta1)

s1 = sin(teta1)

c2 = cos(teta2)

s2 = sin(teta2)

c3 = cos(teta3)

s3 = sin(teta3)

/* cartesian parameters

X = c1*(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)-l3*s1*s3

y = c1*l3*s3+(c2*(c3*l3+l2)+l1)*s1

z = (c3*l3+l2)*s2

**Those are the matrix of homogeneus transformation.**

/* [wxMaxima batch file version 1] [ DO NOT EDIT BY HAND! ]*/

/* [ Created with wxMaxima version 11.04.0 ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotz1: matrix(

[c1,-s1,0,0],

[s1,c1,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

trasx1: matrix(

[1,0,0,l1],

[0,1,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotx1: matrix(

[1,0,0,0],

[0,0,-1,0],

[0,1,0,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotz2: matrix(

[c2,-s2,0,0],

[s2,c2,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

trasx2: matrix(

[1,0,0,l2],

[0,1,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotx2: matrix(

[1,0,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,-1,0,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

p2: matrix(

[0],

[0],

[0],

[1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */**rotz1.trasx1.rotx1.rotz2.trasx2.rotx2.p2;**/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotz3: matrix(

[c3,-s3,0,0],

[s3,c3,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

trasx3: matrix(

[1,0,0,l3],

[0,1,0,0],

[0,0,1,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

rotx3: matrix(

[1,0,0,0],

[0,0,-1,0],

[0,1,0,0],

[0,0,0,1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */

p3: matrix(

[0],

[0],

[0],

[1]

);

/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* [wxMaxima: input start ] */**rotz1.trasx1.rotx1.rotz2.trasx2.rotx2.rotz3.trasx3.rotx3.p3;**/* [wxMaxima: input end ] */

/* Maxima can't load/batch files which end with a comment! */

"Created with wxMaxima"$

best regards.

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06-10-2011
03:49 PM

06-10-2011
03:49 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

I continue experiment and only have 3 solutions til now:

1. SrinivasanIyer solution of use another coordinate system.

2. David Butz solution of use a cartesian system definition, can use homogenius transformation too, is perfect as David Butz says.

3. Make the helical curve (or helical solid) in another part file and assemble both part files, if possible.

Best regards, all of you.

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09-22-2011
08:59 AM

09-22-2011
08:59 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Here is solutions if you want to use other technique: http://communities.ptc.com/blogs/vpalffy/2011/02/09/user-defined-springs

Vladimir

Best Regards,

Vladimir Palffy

Vladimir Palffy

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09-22-2011
03:00 PM

09-22-2011
03:00 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

I agree with Vladimir.

Use Trajpar and never look back!

That way your helix can adapt to changes in model and you can make basicly any wierd helical thing.

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09-22-2011
04:20 PM

09-22-2011
04:20 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

The rounded square section coil looks so PRO!!, the heart is nice too. Excellent command, excellent comment. Thanks.

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09-23-2011
03:15 AM

09-23-2011
03:15 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

You are welcome. Thank you too

Vladimir

Best Regards,

Vladimir Palffy

Vladimir Palffy

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10-13-2011
06:32 PM

10-13-2011
06:32 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

How about this for fun?

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10-11-2013
03:14 AM

10-11-2013
03:14 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

beautiful

tell me how make this type item

i wating your answer

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10-13-2011
06:42 PM

10-13-2011
06:42 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Maybe this one?

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10-13-2011
06:44 PM

10-13-2011
06:44 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

This?

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10-13-2011
06:46 PM

10-13-2011
06:46 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Maybe even this?

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10-13-2011
06:48 PM

10-13-2011
06:48 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Even this perhaps? Oh, the FUN you can have!

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12-12-2011
02:08 PM

12-12-2011
02:08 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Hmm... so on this last one Frank, what are you using for the very first and last "hook" at the end of your helical spring? I have my own technique for achieving this, but I'm curious how you built yours.

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12-21-2011
09:52 AM

12-21-2011
09:52 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

The end and middle hooks are all cylindrical like the body of the spring itself instead of planar in the above torsional spring. This model was actually the easiest. In the red coil (which is actually the winding of an air-core ferric electrical part) the ends are both forced to be normal to a plane. The example above that has a constantly-changing radius, pitch, diameter, and reverses helical rotation twice. For the Smalley wave spring, their models suck, and i thought I'd make one that represents the true geometry. With the exception of the top coil that spirals inside itself (actually the toughest model to solve though easy to make if that makes any sense) these models were all made at least 12 years ago. I believe my e-mail is listed if you'd like to contact me about them.

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12-22-2011
05:23 PM

12-22-2011
05:23 PM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

Thanks for the extra information Frank.

Personally I love modeling springs and weird helical surfaces with complex transitions. After your explanation and some careful examination, I'm confident I understand how you did them.

I think I was outsmarting myself. The one that reverses rotation twice had me stumped. I can do it in two features easily enough or by merging two trajectories into one and then sweeping the solid. I guess I looked at it and thought you managed a direction-reversing coil all in one feature. Was it just two trajectories back to back or did you indeed figure out some clever mathematical way to reverse direction?

Thanks again!

-Brian

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12-23-2011
09:55 AM

12-23-2011
09:55 AM

Re: Rotating Helical Curve from XY plane to XZ plane

For all those springs, there is only a single continuous trajectory, even for the reversals of rotation, and even for the Smalley spring, which is perfectly cylindrical on it's inner and outer surfaces. The red coil was a trajectory that is the intersection of 2 surfaces, but it is still a single trajectory, even with the ends normal to a plane on the bottom. It was part of a coil and I did it just for fun, I just didn't bother to add the short straight leads for the thru-hole solder joint to the PCB. I have a technique where I can model spring ends normal to or parallel to the cylindrical axis of a spring on one trajectory feature. And, best of all, there is no math involved, just trajpar.

So, how did I do the torsional spring ends?