Reference Tables in Mathcad 7

[jadornonunez]

Hello folks,

I'm sure this questions has been asked many times before, but I haven't found a straight answer.

Are reference tables available in Mathcad Prime 7? In Mathcad 15 the reference tables are readily (and easily) accessible and they are interactive (e.g. periodic table). I can't seem to find how to access these tables in Mathcad Prime 7. My fear is that this would be yet another functionality lost when transitioning from 15 to Prime.

Thanks in advance!!

[terryhendicott]

Hi,

Are you or one of the PTC staff up to a medium sized job.

In Mathcad 15 when you have a sheet of the reference tables open you can file save as a mathcad sheet

You can then use the Prime 7 converter to convert the sheet to Prime.

The right click to get an annotation available on the Mathcad 15 saved sheet is not converted as Prime does not implement this functionality.

Enclosed are two samples.

You need to use Document | Draft to see all the periodic table.

Now all it needs is someone with some time on their hands to preserve the reference tables?

Cheers

Terry

[terryhendicott]

Hi,

Some more information.

The actual worksheets of the reference documents are included at the following locations.

Reference worksheets
C:\Program Files (x86)\Mathcad\Mathcad 15\Resource Center\EN\qsheet\references
Periodic Table
C:\Program Files (x86)\Mathcad\Mathcad 15\Resource Center\EN\qsheet\references\Science
Periodic Pop Ups for each element
C:\Program Files (x86)\Mathcad\Mathcad 15\Resource Center\EN\qsheet\references\Science\popups

The sheets just need to be converted.

There have been calls on this forum for hyperlinks to be incorporated in Prime.

Cheers Terry

[jadornonunez]

Hello Terry,

Thanks for the information.

Looks like the functionality is not available in Prime 7. In Mathcad 15 the periodic table is interactive in the sense that if you click on one element it brings up all the information for that element. As I feared, this is another useful tool that has been lost to the infamous transition from Mathcad 15 to the Prime series, which is a regression rather than an evolution ( not your fault, I'm just venting 😫).

Thank you again!

Best regards,

nitrox7

[LucMeekes]

This is what it looked like in Prime 4:

It's just the table above and below, there are no links between elements and their corresponding data.

So it's not that it was lost in translation from Mc15 to Prime.

Somewhere between Prime 4 and 7 it got lost (or well hidden).

Further check reveals that in Prime 5 you only have the table of elements, the data table is absent.

In Prime 6 the reference tables are absent altogether.

PTC gradually broke it down.

Success!

Luc

P.S. A little further exploration: Prime 1 had only the Periodic Table of the Elements in the reference tables. In Prime 3.1 the data table with element properties is available (it may have been added there, or in Prime 3). As stated above it lived until (including) Prime 4. Prime 5's reference tables seem (at first glance) to be reduced to the Prime 1 or 2 set.

THE big difference between Prime 1...4 versus Prime 5 and up is that in the earlier versions, pressing F1 or the ? circle (top right) would create a separate window. In the newer versions a web page is opened in your browser.

[VladimirN]

Mathcad Prime 4.0 Help Center: https://support.ptc.com/cs/help/mathcad_hc/prime4_hc/

Mathcad Prime 7.0 Help Center: https://support.ptc.com/help/mathcad/r7.0/en/

[VladimirN]

Please find it in attachment all "Reference Tables" worksheets for Mathcad Prime:

[LucMeekes]

They are also 'readiliy available' in Prime.

Press F1  (or choose the ? circle in the top right corner of the Prime window).

Then, from the "PTC Mathcad Prime Help Center", choose "Reference Tables" from the table at the left.

Success!
Luc

Ah,  that worked in Prime 4. In Prime 7 it's no longer accessible via that route, if it exists at all, still.

It's PTC...

[StuartBruff]

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@LucMeekes wrote:

They are also 'readiliy available' in Prime.

Press F1  (or choose the ? circle in the top right corner of the Prime window).

Then, from the "PTC Mathcad Prime Help Center", choose "Reference Tables" from the table at the left.

Success!
Luc

Ah,  that worked in Prime 4. In Prime 7 it's no longer accessible via that route, if it exists at all, still.

It's PTC...

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Click on the "Engineering Resources" tab in the Resources ribbon.  This should take you to:

https://community.ptc.com/t5/PTC-Mathcad/PTC-Mathcad-All-Worksheets/td-p/450684

Then skim down until you come to Reference Tables link (the image icon is seemingly missing).   Clicking the link should take you to:

https://community.ptc.com/t5/PTC-Mathcad/Reference-Tables/td-p/449823

The link was put there on 25 Apr 15.

Cheers,

Stuart

I'm feeling all bitter and twisted today, as I've rediscovered another part of M15 that doesn't work anymore - this time the use of the comma to act as part of a sequence specification in a for-loop.   I was annoyed at the time, because it took away one of my favourite programming tools: non-sequential sequences(!).    So I'm wondering if perhaps the move of the Resource Tables is all part of a subtle migration strategy to irritate everybody except the DOS BASIC programmer who seems to influence all the decisions about useful Mathcad mathematic features, and who hasn't heard of any new programming paradigms or languages since about 1950. 

[jadornonunez]

Thank you very much to all of you for your comments and efforts to help on this matter. 

I think that the mere fact that it takes so much effort to look for a functionality in Prime 7 that could be found with a simple click in Mathcad 15 really illustrates the root cause of the frustration that longtime Mathcad users feel.

Thank you again!!

All the best,

nitrox7  

[StuartBruff]

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@jadornonunez wrote:I think that the mere fact that it takes so much effort to look for a functionality in Prime 7 that could be found with a simple click in Mathcad 15 ...  

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To be fair, it only took 2 clicks, provided you knew which the first click was, and recognized the significance of the link that you had to scroll down to once you'd clicked the first link.

It's just a reflection of my sense of humour, but the first thing that popped into my mind was:

“But the worksheets were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the worksheets, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. They were on display in the net equivalent of the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

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I think that the mere fact that it takes so much effort to look for a functionality in Prime 7 that could be found with a simple click in Mathcad 15 really illustrates the root cause of the frustration that longtime Mathcad users feel.

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Indeed.

However, all is not doom and gloom - the road map seems to be heading in the direction of near-parity with M15 in about 4 years time.  I am also very grateful that we have Vladimir patrolling the Mathcad Community.   He has been very helpful to many users on очень много случаев (very many occasions).  It must be a bit disheartening to keep seeing some quite sharp criticism of Mathcad and PTC for so many years. 

Stuart

[jadornonunez]

Hello Stuart,

I'm still not finding the reference tables in Prime 7. I can easily get to the "Welcome to PTC Mathcad Prime 7.0.0.0" help file. However, I cannot find the "Reference Tables" in the contents index menu (upper left hand corner) and if I search "reference tables" using the search box, nothing is found. 

Is it that the these "tables" now need to be downloaded as separate files and use as stand-alone worksheets? I don't see how we can get to the reference tables is Prime 7 at all, let alone two clicks. Perhaps I'm really missing something.

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks!

[StuartBruff]

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@jadornonunez wrote:

Hello Stuart,

I'm still not finding the reference tables in Prime 7. I can easily get to the "Welcome to PTC Mathcad Prime 7.0.0.0" help file. However, I cannot find the "Reference Tables" in the contents index menu (upper left hand corner) and if I search "reference tables" using the search box, nothing is found. 

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You need to click the "Engineering Resources" button in the Resources ribbon - not the Help button.  This takes you to a web page where you can find a link to the "Reference Tables" webpage. 

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Is it that the these "tables" now need to be downloaded as separate files and use as stand-alone worksheets?

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Yes.  On the Reference Tables webpage, you will find a link to download a zip file containing the tables.   

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I don't see how we can get to the reference tables is Prime 7 at all, let alone two clicks. Perhaps I'm really missing something.

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No, you're not missing much, apart from which button to click to get to the Reference Tables.   I'm afraid it's still a mandraulic process of finding and opening them.   I guess the Leopard is real.

Stuart

[DJNewman]

Hello,

I was very curious about this question so I reached out to PTC Mathcad's documentation team for an answer on what happened to the reference tables. (As noted earlier in the thread, they were in Prime 3.1 and Prime 4, so the reference tables disappearing is not a 15 to Prime thing.)

They responded saying that they have changed content strategy, for example, by publishing the API Guide in Prime 7 and providing additional examples. The Documentation team is looking to publish more Mathcad-specific, exclusive content.
By comparison, the information in those reference tables, while useful, is non-Mathcad-specific freely available information elsewhere on the Internet, so it falls out of the strategy scope to maintain it.

They also said the content strategy change involves introducing and embedding videos to select help pages, which is a big project that I'm personally very excited about and involved with.

I hope this provides some clarity, in addition to the other replies in the thread.

[StuartBruff]

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@DJNewman wrote:

Hello,

I was very curious about this question so I reached out to PTC Mathcad's documentation team for an answer on what happened to the reference tables. 

They responded saying that they have changed content strategy, for example, by publishing the API Guide in Prime 7 and providing additional examples. The Documentation team is looking to publish more Mathcad-specific, exclusive content.

---

Interesting.

By comparison, the information in those reference tables, while useful, is non-Mathcad-specific freely available information elsewhere on the Internet, so it falls out of the strategy scope to maintain it.

They also said the content strategy change involves introducing and embedding videos to select help pages, which is a big project that I'm personally very excited about and involved with.

I hope this provides some clarity, in addition to the other replies in the thread.

---

I know this might sound like a silly question, but who is Mathcad targetted at (ie, who do they want as customers for Mathcad)?

Stuart

[jadornonunez]

Stuart,

By process of elimination, their target customers are anyone other than people who learned Mathcad previous to the Prime series...🥴😂

Reference tables were a very handy tool: easy to find and readily available. I was there already, but, nah, let's throw it out the window and have customer scavenge the internet for them. Who doesn't want to add 10-20 minutes of internet searching to their day?

Scriptable objects? PTC introduces a drop down menu in Prime 7.0 that does not even allow composite units. You have to define a "new unit" to disguise the composite unit  as a base unit. Quite frankly, I feel like I come from another planet. Where I'm from, the voice of the customer is usually considered in the decision making process, but, hey, I'm sure there is a secret master plan that one day will be revealed to us and it will all make sense...🤨

Tanks everybody for your answers and comments. I think we beat this one to death!

[StuartBruff]

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Stuart,

By process of elimination, their target customers are anyone other than people who learned Mathcad previous to the Prime series...🥴😂

Hmm, the cynicism is strong with this one.   Almost as strong as mine.

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Reference tables were a very handy tool: easy to find and readily available. I was there already, but, nah, let's throw it out the window and have customer scavenge the internet for them. Who doesn't want to add 10-20 minutes of internet searching to their day?

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True, that's 20 minutes of searching for cat porn cultural enlightenment that I won't get back.   

I don't really understand the argument for not maintaining these worksheets.  They're pretty much well defined and static, so low maintenance.  Furthermore, the data is available in parseable formats from reputable website.   It should be very little trouble indeed to write a script that reads the data and converts it to worksheets.   I had a brief look at the current XML format, but they've changed the way that they store text and data, otherwise I might have had a go at creating the worksheets in Mathcad.

Scriptable objects? PTC introduces a drop down menu in Prime 7.0 that does not even allow composite units. You have to define a "new unit" to disguise the composite unit  as a base unit. Quite frankly, I feel like I come from another planet.

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Yes, they are another sorely missed feature.  I could do some useful things with scripts, the advantage being that everything was contained in the Mathcad environment.  I *could* do some of the things via that API, but that would mean stepping outside Mathcad and making configuration control more difficult.  Moreover, it removes the user one step further away from being able to define and edit scripts.

I gather there are plans to introduce scriptable objects in some form or another in 3 or 4 releases time.

Quite frankly, I feel like I come from another planet. Where I'm from, the voice of the customer is usually considered in the decision making process, but, hey, I'm sure there is a secret master plan that one day will be revealed to us and it will all make sense...🤨

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Can you hear the gentle whispering of oxygen flowing one way and carbon dioxide the other way?  That's me not holding my breath.   The PTC roadmap for Mathcad shows them aiming for near parity with Mathcad 15 capability over the next 4 years (interestingly, the time at which they turn off support for Mathcad 15).    How equivalent those features will be is something to be seen.

Tanks everybody for your answers and comments. I think we beat this one to death!

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I'm not sure we have yet.   There's a reason I would like to know who forms PTC's intended market for Mathcad. 

Stuart

[Fred_Kohlhepp]

  There's a reason I would like to know who forms PTC's intended market for Mathcad. 

I believe the original intent was to tuck Mathcad into Creo as a neat little addition; but all those non-Creo, serious types keep complaining about what they can't do any longer (that they used to be able to:  scripts, table look-ups, reference sheets {e. g. Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain as a calculation sheet}, animations, . . .) .

The desertion dissatisfaction of that (no so) small but vocal group has attracted the attention of the commercial market; there are at least two "open source" options available and the traditional competitors of commercial Mathcad are taking notice.  It's a steep learning curve, but unless PTC puts on their big boy pants soon, they can keep their neat little addition and the vocal group will have attractive alternatives.

[StuartBruff]

I suspected something along those lines.   As you say, Mathcad has to do some fast growing up to do *if* it wants to reach the kind of market that it was aimed at during Mathsoft's tenure.

That *if* is the 64-dollar question, hence my question.

Stuart