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It's obvious that PTC is making a very hard effort to implement a new collaboratory, I just must to congratulate the guys involved in this project, because is easy to see that they are paying much attention in the develop of this project.
Also is obvious that they are following the new tendencies in the process, making not a collaboratory but a community, a social one, using the news available technologies to make it. But this have nothing new, from the times before of the cavern mans this happen. And the process of changes are usually some traumatic.
The new options available sure have a lot of advantages, make the concept of the new PTC collaboratory superior than the old from the point of view of the possibilities of growth and are write having windowed standards to make this kind of discussion forums. So, I agree with almost all of the new toys. Even that, have some points to remark.
I don't see people who claim to recover the old functions available in the collaboratory as dinosaurs after a meteorite impact -at least, if that, I'm a diplodocus-. The old technology provides just the enough to have a high discussion level with the minimal effort from the side of those who want to answer questions or having interesting points of views take the time and with the best of the intentions empty out it to the others.
I think that a point here is if system engineers dedicated to the design of this community want to preserve it or not. I'm sure that in the staff who are working here are persons that want it, but, and probably without proposed it, this design is not on purpose to have the kind of discussion that the other technology propitiates. For example, here there are the possibility to mark answers as the correct one. This make a lot of assumptions, for starting, the principle that there are sure only one correct answer -this the big, but there a lot of other assumptions. I leave in a word where the circuits have a Thevenin or Norton equivalents, both corrects, just if they are assuming as linear, planes, components at very long distance one between others but joined with no resistive wires, etc, etc. So, the true is more a functional abstraction than a catching thing. If Discussions are thinking just to make a social tissue I think that this conception make to degrade the technical concepts that people can to knock over here.
In the above point I don't see the ex-profeso intention to do it, but a systems engineers translating here technologies which are not specific for technical communities -or technological - linking communities.
Another thing that I see typical from engineers dedicated to develop software is the size of the pages: there are a lot of pages with more than 2.000.000 bits -this without counting images. Usually those guys have the last innovative hardware, optimized operating systems -usually more than one- and cleaning machines -this is, without other software. I believe that I'm not alone in the form that I read the forums: with four or five hungry of resources other openend programs -like mathcad-, by intervals -like when drinking coffee or smoking- and interchanging this reading with others -like one or two pdf or the soccer results. I usually use Opera to navigate, and must to confess that even work fine for the most pages, which surprise to me, there are others that make the reading bother.
So, having above things in mind and another, I guess that making the access in some "old view" engine, without the sophistications of the "normal" view, but with the speed of the simple things. Gmail have it, BBC internet site have it, so probably it is some useful thing. Also remember that the standard for well designed pages still in 800x600. For the low-resources reading, can't go beyond this resolution.
Another point of view could be not think in improve the community with the ability for reading posts on-line populating the options in this design, but providing software to do it off-line. There are a lot of free software to read PHP forums, I don't use it and know very little about this, but I'm sure that there are over there implementations with enough options to make a lot of people happy, or at least, with a easy life. If designers of this know some one, probably is time to point us to it.
Another point -to me- is the lemma: "A community for PTC customers and everyone dedicated to product development excellence" I'm not sure which kind of statics have PTC about they own software, but the word that I don't understand very well is customers. I know some quantity of users of PTC software, but actually very little amount of PTC's software owners. I see engineers working in enterprises with this software, which a lot of times are corporations, and the owners are shareholders. I believe that they have the admission by the side of the excellence of the product development, but I miss the old salutation "Welcome to the Mathcad User Forums". At least, I'm a teacher too, and one that still thinking that the education isn't a factory process where the product development usually occurs. I believe that this more modest wellcome have a best impression than a sphisticated lemma (slogan) as advertiser.
I'm sure that the staff dedicated to implement this community have more than enough technical background, willingly and enthusiasm in the good sucess of the implementation of it, so have certitude of it sucess, and in this post are just some personal notes and appretiations -and in my limited technical english.
Kind regards and congratulations.
Alvaro.
I am sure they have put a lot of work into it. I also agree that the new tools are potentially useful. People need to give threm more time, rather than just dismissing them out of hand. If social networking tools were useless then Facebook and LinkedIn would not be as popular as they are.
But, the Mathcad community was formed in an environment that was discussion based, because that's what the Collaboratory offered. So of course the first comparison that will be made is to the discussion forums here, and unfortunately the discussion forums here are not very good (big understatement!). The biggest problem is just the difficulty in finding the new posts, but it's not the only one.
Hi Alvaro: thanks for your impressions and feedback. Both Dan (BostonDan) and I are intent on providing members of PlanetPTC Community with the best experience. The site has been live for only 2 weeks so Richard is right in that we are trying to let the community members get used to the new site. We know that former Collab members are experiencing the biggest change (for the worse, they say) and we're committed to getting them over the hump too. Keep the feedback coming because we are tracking all of it. Thanks.
Rachel L. Nislick wrote:
We know that former Collab members are experiencing the biggest change (for the worse, they say)
Well, they are ignoring the new tools (hopefully that wil change) and comparing what they had, which was just a discussion forum, to the discussion forum here. For reasons you are now aware of, the discussions forums here are not nearly as good.
I posted this in another thread, but I'm not sure who's reading that one:
One big problem is that there is not a SINGLE bold entry of a given thread with new postings, there are MULTIPLE bold entries. And so while there is not much activity at the moment, when this site really gets going, the listing will be inundated with repeat copies of the same entries. The recent thread listing should remove the older entries if a newer posting exists.
However, that gets back to a fundamental difference between the Collab and the current forum, which is that there is no single display of the new postings on an existing thread, and there is no method for finding the new ones. So this particular thread has 3 entries in the Recent Discussions listing, but only the absolute, most recent posting is easily retrievable. The next two older postings can only be found be scrolling around. There needs to be the same functionality as in the Collab, wherein a single button pulls up ALL the new entries since the last READ and places them in a single display.
ps. what was the reason for locking my thread "Where did everyone go?"
TTFN
ps. what was the reason for locking my thread "Where did everyone go?"
It's been unlocked again
Thanks all for comments.
At time when I write this post, the Eden post's was locked, if not, sure it goes to this other place. New options are not in a pull down menu, are icons, and looks like toys. But we know that are not toys, are designed following some phylosophy, so, there are some intention behind the pictures.
There are very few ensays about this new type of communities. Actually the word "virtual" dissappear from the source; also from the mind of lot of users. Sociologist have not a good description yet of this entities. I see the issues implementing the fast "one click" use of the old technology as a problem with the root conception of this community. And I don't say that I dissaprove this one, just I'm writing some observations. Probably PTC just take note about the new tendendes and want to replicate it, introducing a new technology in a previous formed community. This happen every time: the tv against the radio, the radio against the newspapers, the newspapers against the neighbours, ... each one implemented not always over the other. They coexist by some time. Suplanting in one day one technology by other, killing the old one, sure go to make some collateral damages. The concept that new technologies -programs are it, are techs- kill the olds, isn't a good idea. For example, mathcad 14 installation needs to assamble the binaries to call a very old DOS black window, called by .net framework.
So, a point interesting to me could be, first, if PTC want the old functions here -see all new post with one click-, and second, for how many time. And most probably this thing was not a deliberate issue, just a consequence of the new modus operandi of this social communities.
Regards. Alvaro.
Hello Alvaro !
".... " can't paste the quoted part of the message !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since today june 22 [2010] time 19:27 I can read you as well as Richard ...etc .
BUT [in continuation so many things others collabd don't like]
I can't paste part of your previous post ... Does the webmaster read ???
There is no button for "new" whatever new may be in whichever thread.
So, webmaster where is the button "NEW" like in the former Akiva ?
The attachment is in reply to a collab, but can't retrieve by date/name
or whatever search
I can change the the title in the main line but can't backward letters in
the top line where it says: Reply to 'Re: Some notes' in Mathcad usage
I can't paste a piece of text in this reply box.
Webmaster read this :
If a collab as a pertinent question that requires the pertaining reply ,
reply often in text from other source(s) than my own composition.
where to plug this "pertaining piece ot tutorial" in that compobox ?????????
If you think I could post the "pertaining text" in work sheet ... my answer is NO
If you think I could post the reply in image ... my answer is NO
My answers are NO because none of my clients are willing to pay $
for PTC mistakes in the design of the "New Mathcad FaceBook"
This web has been designed without logic:
logic to paste a piece of foreign text in this compobox
the logic to click/click/click ... New, attach file, post [done and quit].
More clicks than Akiva is scratching the left ear with the right hand [stupid]
to seat on the chair for srcatching the left ear with the right hand [even more stupid],
to seat on the sofa instead of seating on the chair to scratch the left ear with the right
hand [completely idiot !]
I' hope the webmaster will read this and update their logic.
Logic is an irreversible process, as well as time is an irreversible clock.
Cheers Alvaro, nice to meet you again.
Jean
Jean
We would all like to see some changes, but perhaps it would be better to ask for them in a less confrontational way?
Thanks Richard,
to remind me my panic button is stuck. I will surely calm down !
Jean
Jean,
We are working to improve this new Mathcad Community, so please bear with us. You're welcome to post your feedback about what improvements you'd like to see, but it doesn't help when you accuse people of stupidity. It's a new site, and some features are not fully developed.
I am very optimistic that the web team is listening to feedback and improving the new discussion forums as well as providing a place for users to share their useful and interesting worksheets for others. I'm moving over worksheets and E-books from the online Mathcad Resource Center, so that all content can be easily searched in one place.
Mona
Mathcad Senior Technical Consultant
Dear Mona,
Thanks for your help again, that never failed.
While at that hard navigation period, I have a wish:
Would it be possible for a collab to create a file of his work sheets,
I mean a personal file. It would act as a personal repository but for
all to consult. I'm suggesting that consequently to a near disaster
that just happened to me ... like this:
I do triplicate my backup [USB, + 2 CD's] . Wisely enough, I backup
the 2nd CD less often and that was my great luck, saving my soul.
Recently, I had to consult one of the major collection Given/Find
The hard drive replied "Failed to open"
The USB replied "Failed to open"
The first CD replied "Failed to open"
The 2nd CD then opened !
Now you can see my point having a personal [but public] repository
in the community . If the 2nd CD would have "Failed to open" it would
still be be there in the world, easy to retrieve. Some collections can't
be remade, even most single work sheets can't be remade.
As an example of this "suggested repository", the "Extra Components"
from Richard might be hard to find for new members, but once used
that a repository exist, it would immensely accelerate the learning pace.
Also, because the new community will unavoidably reduce the efficiency,
many new users/visitors could be directed to various repositories.
Years ago, there was a free web repository for few MB. But it does not
long an enterprise collects 100's of Mathcad MB.
I dream and hope for this repository, easy to find by name
Jean
The core of this work sheet is the same. One line of code
has been removed A0:=, A1:= ... etc. on the recall fro file.
What's in the file are already arrays, then need not be assigned.
This line of code is a left over from a similar work done for Jason,
where all the "Data spot" had to be named and indexed.
Mathcad 11
jmG
Jean,
We welcome people posting worksheets on the new Mathcad Community site. That's a main purpose of it, to share your work with others. You can post worksheets by creating documents under the different topic areas, where they will be easiest for other users to locate.
Mona
Hi Jean. Wellcome.
Regards. Alvaro.