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What's the point?

IRstuff
12-Amethyst

What's the point?

Apparently, a bunch of features that are currently existent will disappear and not reappear until MP2.0.

So, what's the point of MP1.0? What would be my motivation for buying it, if it's basically a crippled Mathcad?

TTFN,
Eden
17 REPLIES 17
IRstuff
12-Amethyst
(To:IRstuff)

I guess, on one plus side, is that the recent concern about italics should go away...

TTFN,
Eden
StuartBruff
23-Emerald III
(To:IRstuff)

On 8/14/2009 2:24:30 AM, eden_mei wrote:
== I guess, on one plus side, is that the recent concern about italics should go away...

I wonder if Jean is on Beta test team?

Stuart

On 8/14/2009 3:02:42 AM, stuartafbruff wrote:
>On 8/14/2009 2:24:30 AM, eden_mei wrote:
>== I guess, on one plus side, is that
>the recent concern about italics should
>go away...
>
>I wonder if Jean is on Beta test team?
>
>Stuart

Probably he is not. We would have had a lot of comments so far if he had been included.

Steen Gro�e

Still can't run the Prime

On 8/14/2009 2:22:51 AM, eden_mei wrote:
>Apparently, a bunch of
>features that are currently
>existent will disappear and
>not reappear until MP2.0.
>
>So, what's the point of MP1.0?
>What would be my motivation
>for buying it, if it's
>basically a crippled Mathcad?
>
>TTFN,
>Eden

I think it comes in two flavours:
1. You have to start somewhere.
2. They (PTC) have another massive community available in the CAD world that can and would benefit from the basic mathcad functionality.
Most design departments (the ones that prepared and created design drawings) had design data sheets for everything from screw length, to o-ring sizes.
That is a significant market tha Prime 0.1 can address.
(Oh, that should read Prime 1.0 😉

I think they are missing the fact that they have an existing market that wants mathcad to 'compete' (well, at least reach into) with the compute market (i.e. overlap MatLab as a capability), along with the Maple/Mathematica side shows [note the need for Publisher quality...]

Philip

Philip Oakley

Perhaps, but other than the grid, there's nothing that the current version can't do for that specific application. The one thing I've heard most often asked for previously was the concurrent evaluation, which was implemented in 13 and 14.

TTFN,
Eden

I think that there would be at least fair and correct from the PTC people to explain this puzzle with Mathcad and Matcad Prime. I know that there are lots of Mathcad "long-timers" here. Meny of us users criticized Mathcad, but with the main thing in mind. We wanted Mathcad to be better. In spite of everything we keep using it, are'nt we?. What is realy gong on here?

Regards,
Radovan

From my perspective Prime is a whole lot simpler to use for someone who hasn't used Mathcad before. They may well pick up on many markets that were out of reach before, such as high schools and non-core mathematics university courses. These are the markets that Maple have been picking up.

But from what I can see there are a couple of factors that just make sense:
- It is written in .Net This means it is going to be easier for programs to integrate with it.
- It gives a fresh look and feel. Mathcad was looking a bit dated, especially with its plotting and menu system.
- The upgrade to Windows based Mathcad was almost incompatible with DOS based Mathcad (well, the versions I used at Uni were like this anyway). Already it seems that there is better compatibility than was the case.

There are other features that I like, and there are lots I don't like too. Programming and Symbolics are at the core of what I find most useful in mathcad... so without them I won't be able to use 14 much. For their sake I hope they sell both as separate products until Prime has all the features of previous versions.

Just keep in mind that it is only Beta and we are likely to see lots of changes.


Philip
___________________
Nobody can hear you scream in Euclidean space.

Dated Menus?
The new menu grouping is annoying. I have not found anyone that likes the Office 2007 menu setup and most complain that they are confusing. Personally, I removed Office 2007 and went back to 2003 because they were such a bother.

I know of one person who just doesn't see it as an issue. I've tried to explain why Ribbon is bad, but he just sees it as button grouping, which is like menues but easier to see.

He IS a programmer too.

So why does he have this view? He almost never uses Office. He is a total novice.

Every other person I work with who uses Office on a dayly or weekly bases - not just advanced users, but just users - don't like it.

So, who would choose it for software products?
I tried to come up with reasons someone would pick it.
1. Picked by someone who finds the control and hasn't used a new version of Office. They implement it before understanding it.

2. Someone who doesn't use Office very often and therefore actually likes Ribbon.

3. A designer that accepts most people don't like it, but realise Microsoft is going that way with all their products, so Ribbon WILL BE the way all applications look.

4. A person who uses office frequently and genuinely like Ribbon. According to that survey posted there are 1 in 10 people like that (i've never met one of them).

Whatever the case I can't see that Ribbon would have been picked if there had been any consultation with "the market" (even if that isn't us). I hope that this is taken on board for future development but I doubt there could be any reasonable expectation that the Ribbon will be removed. The time and effort to remove it would be WAY to expensive, and would be put into bug fixing and missing feature development.

So I think the Ribbon debate is moot.

Philip
___________________
Nobody can hear you scream in Euclidean space.

On 8/31/2009 5:49:15 PM, pleitch wrote:

>realise Microsoft is going
>that way with all their
>products, so Ribbon WILL BE
>the way all applications look.

If that happens it would be a justification for taking all the responsible parties from MS and chaining them to the walls, without computers, in a cold, deep dark, damp dungeon.

>So I think the Ribbon debate
>is moot.

Not entirely. It might not actually solve anything, but it makes me feel better to suggest solutions involving putting certain people in cold, deep, dark dungeons (with or without computers).

Richard

On 8/31/2009 5:49:15 PM, pleitch wrote:
>I know of one person who just
>doesn't see it as an issue.
>I've tried to explain why
>Ribbon is bad, but he just
>sees it as button grouping,
>which is like menues but
>easier to see.
>
>He IS a programmer too.

That reminds me of of time my former company wanted to get off of the Lanier wordprocessor system and move wordprocessing to the PC. So they let the IT people make the selection. They pick a Lotus word processor that worked just like coding a program. You setup all your formatting in a styles section at the beginning then applied them in the document. The secretaries REVOLTED and they got involved in picking what we (they) would use. They opted for Wordperfect which at the time was the leading PC wordprocessor.
Never let programmers pick applications or their features for general use. Never.

I'm a developer and I agree.

There is a great book (that I haven't read) on not letting the patients run the asylum.

The story goes that the old mental health asylums failed because Doctors �knew what was best� to help the patients. That very, very rarely worked and not many people got better. Some research came out showing benefits if patients were involved in the process (i.e. addressing the causes, working out what will work for them and assisting other patients recover/cope with their illness).

So the pendulum swung the other way. The patients ran amuck (literally bedlam, that�s where the word comes from).

NOW we know that the path to recovery is somewhere in the middle, where doctors and patients work together with neither being in total control

That applies to software development.

Don�t give the customer everything they want because they very rarely understand the implications they want (cost, time, effort).

Also, the customer can give ideas in relation to the process, but the customer shouldn�t design the software. That�s not where their focus should be, their focus should be on providing feedback on how they want to use the product and what end result they need.

Similarly, the developer should never create something in isolation for a customer because they never fully understand what the customer wants, nor how the customer might use their product.

The customer and developer need to forge a relationship where a trade off is made between everything the customer wants and the cost of delivering what the customer wants.

Microsoft�s big stuff up is that they are the Doctors running the asylum. They are dictating what you are going to use and how you are going to use it, in spite of what you want to use and how you want to use it.


Philip
___________________
Nobody can hear you scream in Euclidean space.

On 9/1/2009 1:45:11 AM, pleitch wrote:
>
>The customer and developer
>need to forge a relationship
>where a trade off is made
>between everything the
>customer wants and the cost of
>delivering what the customer
>wants.

Well said. How many in-house application development projects went bust (over spent and way past deadline) because the customers got everything they wanted.

I am hoping that this Beta testing and our comments will help to give that balance. I was surprised to see that testing Prime was more about a new look and feel then technical improvements or new functionality.

Also the lack of backward compatibility has hindered many of us from running our previous worksheets to find more of the technical glitches that maybe still residing in this new version.


"In time, people won't remember whether you released on time, but they will always remember if you release a bad product."

On 9/8/2009 3:52:58 PM, arfnotz wrote:
>"In time, people won't
>remember whether you released
>on time, but they will always
>remember if you release a bad
>product."

Can you say, "MathCad 12?"

Fred Kohlhepp
fkohlhepp@sikorsky.com

On 9/8/2009 4:01:02 PM, fkohlhepp wrote:
>On 9/8/2009 3:52:58 PM, arfnotz wrote:
>>"In time, people won't
>>remember whether you released
>>on time, but they will always
>>remember if you release a bad
>>product."
>
>Can you say, "MathCad 12?"
>
>Fred Kohlhepp
>fkohlhepp@sikorsky.com

I saw on that ivory face the expression of somber
type checking, of ruthless power raising, of
craven terror--of an intense and hopeless despair.
Did he live his beta test again in every detail of
desire, temptation, and surrender during that
supreme moment of complete knowledge? He cried in
a whisper at some image, at some vision,--he cried
out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath--

"'The horror! The horror!'


On 9/8/2009 3:52:58 PM, arfnotz wrote:
>"In time, people won't
>remember whether you released
>on time, but they will always
>remember if you release a bad
>product."

If you are Microsoft, you do both and call it Vista. :^}

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