Where is SmartSketch headed?

[rm_ulrich]

Hello,

I'm wondering if power users and others "in the know" have an opinion about whether the Mathcad-SmartSketch connection is at a dead end as of 2009, or if there is enough usage that support will continue for at least the next few years? The web forum for SmartSketch does not show very much activity, and I've not heard of it outside of Mathcad circles. Perhaps SmartSketch itself is at a dead end?

If only I could just place basic shapes onto a mathcad sheet, then I might not need to ask these questions! As it stands, it looks like SmartSketch may be the only way to get what I want, and that at a relatively high cost.

Regards,
Richard U.

[ptc-1368288]

You just have a Mathcad work sheet above version 11, which limit the audience a lot, as all this type of work were done in 11 and compatible to lower versions if "Save as".

jmG

[rm_ulrich]

On 10/19/2009 4:51:58 PM, jmG wrote:
>You just have a Mathcad work
>sheet above version 11, which
>limit the audience a lot, as
>all this type of work were
>done in 11 and compatible to
>lower versions if "Save as".
>
>jmG



I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are telling me. My question concerns whether the Mathcad/SmartSketch integration is at a dead end and therefore innappropriate for new projects. The Version 11 issue has to do with the fact that PTC hasn't figured out yet how to convince a lot of users that it is worth their money to upgrade.

R

[ptc-1368288]

On 10/19/2009 5:09:43 PM, rm_ulrich wrote:
>On 10/19/2009 4:51:58 PM, jmG wrote:
>>You just have a Mathcad work
>>sheet above version 11, which
>>limit the audience a lot, as
>>all this type of work were
>>done in 11 and compatible to
>>lower versions if "Save as".
>>
>>jmG
>
>
>
>I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are
>telling me. My question concerns
>whether the Mathcad/SmartSketch
>integration is at a dead end and
>therefore innappropriate for new
>projects. The Version 11 issue has to
>do with the fact that PTC hasn't figured
>out yet how to convince a lot of users
>that it is worth their money to upgrade.
>
>R
__________________

Right: misposting. Smartsketch is the light version of Intergraph, which existed before AutoCad. If you don't have the Smartsketch that came with Mathcad 8, not sure if you even you get it, the conviviality with Mathcad above 8 will be recognised.
>PTC hasn't figured
>out yet how to convince a lot of users
>that it is worth their money to upgrade
It's not worth the attempt, most Mathcad work 11 will turn red and lost in the blue, especially the symbolic work. I do regularly post tools and/or projects done for collabs 11, ... download at will, any red means dead.

jmG

[SteenGroðe]

honestly nobody knows but the wizard interface has long needed an update. It actually still works, though.

Steen Gro�e

[Fred_Kohlhepp]

On 10/19/2009 3:26:26 PM, rm_ulrich wrote:
>Hello,

>If only I could just place
>basic shapes onto a mathcad
>sheet, then I might not need
>to ask these questions! As it
>stands, it looks like
>SmartSketch may be the only
>way to get what I want, and
>that at a relatively high
>cost.

I have successfully integrated a smartsketch object into a mathcad (version 11) sheet; but I see little or no reason to--very often the changes that Mathcad drives in Smartsketch make the imbedded picture really strange.

If all you need is an illustration, then paste in a picture.

Fred Kohlhepp
fkohlhepp@sikorsky.com

[rm_ulrich]

On 10/27/2009 8:19:17 AM, fkohlhepp wrote:
>
>I have successfully integrated a
>smartsketch object into a mathcad
>(version 11) sheet; but I see little or
>no reason to--very often the changes
>that Mathcad drives in Smartsketch make
>the imbedded picture really strange.
>
>If all you need is an illustration, then
>paste in a picture.
>


From another thread, I learned a better approach. From Powerpoint, make my block diagram, and then paste the objects into Mathcad. Unfilled shapes copy over just fine, can be moved around, resized, and moved on top of mathcad regions so that the mathcad equations seem enclosed. "Send to back" does not work, though, so the enclosed equations can't be editing without moving the shape out of the way. That's a small price. Basically, Powerpoint seems to provide a compatible drawing toolkit to go with Mathcad.

R

SmarkSketch is an order of magnitude too expensive, and from what you say it wouldn't even have done the job.

[ptc-1368288]

If you don't have a real "Vector graphic package" like AutoCad, Smartsketch ... you will not have a drawing sizable, embedded in Mathcad. PP is a vector companion in the same style than Adobe PDF. If the drawing is a structure than changes shape as per some active design in Mathcad and if you have a real vector graphic embedded in Mathcad, yes it will change shape like more cross members ... etc. For practical & simpler use, if the shape is a picture from any source and if you want to have some values update as per the applicable calculations, then the route is simple and of very practical use. You capture the picture ... web, scanner ... you paste that picture into Paint, you copy from Paint to WinGrab, decrease the color level to 256 and paste in Mathcad. In Mathcad, you slide in the picture the live data that do vary as per the design and they will update. You may just have to say send to front/back.

In the attached, name the reference and the working sheets as per your system. The working sheet is "Refrence _1". In that sheet, as an instrument man I'm only interested to see the volume of the thank change as per the level measured from a XTR. You simulate this live variable by 'h' an see the volume change. I have more involved gadgets like a turbo control loop where the tuning parameters can be displayed and each stage show the graph as part of the system.

Maybe you dream too much about what's not really essential. You have posted nothing about your project, and that renders any specific advise impossible but you know the two routes. Don't you have friends that could crack Smatsketch or any other vector graphic. Cracks are not recommended anyway !

jmG

[Ninetrees]

I use both AutoSketch and PowerPoint for transparent shapes, and GeoGebra for many other figures. GeoGebra isn't that easy to learn, but I suppose that every product has its learning curve.

Rich
http://www.downeastengineering.com/

[ptc-1368288]

...



jmG

[Ninetrees]

Thanks for the example, Jean. Very useful. But my point apparently still holds - no nice Mathcad MDA capability for matrices beyond 2D.

Still, the examples you show give me the tools I need to manage 3D and beyond.

Rich
http://www.downeastengineering.com/

[ptc-1368288]

On 10/28/2009 7:15:46 AM, woodwise wrote:
>Thanks for the example, Jean.
>Very useful. But my point
>apparently still holds - no
>nice Mathcad MDA capability
>for matrices beyond 2D.
>
>Still, the examples you show
>give me the tools I need to
>manage 3D and beyond.
>
>Rich
>http://www.downeastengineering
>.com/
_______________________________

OK for the "verbiage" ( a pejorative french word that english shouldn't used especially when addressed to specific person in a public forum). The 2D as you say, means "2d domain plotting in 3 dimensions". If "MDA and subspace" are verbiage they don't mean the same thing for sure for whoever may be educated past the "verbiage stage" if "subspace is verbiage". In term of subspace [Mathsoft terminology], Mathcad is pretty powerful and flexible for quick use. For more of this stuff, "Create Amazing Images" is a tool to consider, but 5 MB for few odd and occasional shapes ! ?

Attached, few more that may be handy.
What matters mostly is the quick export for a Mathcad user.

Jean

[ptc-1368288]

Mathcad is essentially a 3 dimension constructor.
The sequential Createmesh is one of the applications,
... a knowledge base not revisited.



jmG

[StuartBruff]

On 10/27/2009 2:08:41 PM, woodwise wrote:
>> (In woodwise's worksheet) Mathcad doesn't do multi-dim arrays.

As Jean has intimated, it can do them. In fact, it can emulate Matlab array handling quite nicely (apart from slightly clumsier indexing and much weaker graphics)

See
MDA Library http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?87179,12

In particular, download the library and look at message 13 for examples.

Stuart

[Ninetrees]

>> As Jean has intimated, it can do them. In fact, it can emulate Matlab array handling quite nicely (apart from slightly clumsier indexing and much weaker graphics)

Well, not to be argumentative, especially in light of such a large MDA worksheet, but "quite nicely" doesn't seem to jibe with "slightly clumsier indexing." I opine that the MATLAB code is much more succinct, easier to understand, and required no new functions (such as "nest"). In fact, a quick browse of the messages you pointed me to seem to indicate that folks would agree.

>>See MDA Library http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?87179,12

Thanks for the link. It will take me some time to browse all the messages and study the MDA lib. I appreciate the notes that are included with the worksheet. Too often I am left to discover what a function does or why it works. All I really wanted was simple MDA indexing, though I am sure that once I have that, I'll want more ;-). I can see from the examples that true portability would require, at the least, functions that handle different ORIGINs.

Rich
http://www.downeastengineering.com/

[ptc-1368288]

>Well, not to be argumentative<<br> _______________________________

The 4 M's have each a different structure. Several collabs using both Matlab/Mathcad have reported dropping dead looking at so simple it was coding Mathcad vs Matlab in some cases, the vice versa being also true. General user/Engineers find Mathcad visible. I understand that some firm may have preference in regard of traceability and proofing of existing functionalities. A Mathcad extension pack imitating some Matlab coding would be well received for some generalist-consultant.

Jean

[ptc-1368288]

On 10/28/2009 3:38:13 AM, stuartafbruff wrote:
>On 10/27/2009 2:08:41 PM, woodwise
>wrote:
>>> (In woodwise's worksheet) Mathcad doesn't do multi-dim arrays.
>
>As Jean has intimated, it can do them.
>In fact, it can emulate Matlab array
>handling quite nicely (apart from
>slightly clumsier indexing and much
>weaker graphics) ...
>Stuart
_____________________

Differently, agreed. In Mathcad the 3 dimension array are made as functions, collapsed in the utilities area. By doing so, the creation will be in discretized maths (generally). Like you say, Matlab [Matrix Lab] being essentially an array/matrix like a data base structure, allows more direct graphic capability.

Salut Stuart, I will soon be in Wimbledon Park.

Jean

[ptc-1368288]

>See
MDA Library http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?87179,12

In particular, download the library and look at message 13 for examples.

Stuart<<br> _______________________

Stuart,

The work sheet is protected and inactive.
Do you want it to be museum or tool ?
Are you willing to repost unlocked ?

Jean

[StuartBruff]

On 10/28/2009 10:05:37 AM, jmG wrote:
>See MDA Library http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?87179,12

In particular, download the library and look at message 13 for examples.
_______________________

Stuart,

The work sheet is protected and inactive.
Do you want it to be museum or tool ?
Are you willing to repost unlocked ?

It should be active, Jean, but I'd rather it remained locked - it was rather thrown together and is somewhat messy even by my standards, a result of developing it on-the-fly.

It also looks like some of the sheets need revising as they are throwing up errors in M13. I've just dug out a slightly more recent Library sheet and uploaded that to replace the previous version.

I may get time in the nearish future to look at it.

It would be nice if it were to be used as a tool. But, as I've moaned about mentioned before, Mathcad's indexing makes it a right royal pain to use.

Have a look at the Examples v3 worksheet in
http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?115535,12

[ptc-1368288]

>It should be active, Jean, but I'd rather it remained locked <<br> _________________________

Don't worry Stuart,
my recollection made "Ding-Dong", read it as a reference. I lean on your side to keep the work sheet locked based on the fact that lot of good stuff from the "Mathcad Power Users" is misused/misinterpreted or otherwise "scraped".

Cheers, Jean.

[AlvaroDíaz]

I found MDA library very helpful, primary, for understand what is it.

But refering about a program for simple diagrams, have two: Microsoft Visio, which is free for Excel users. And Microsoft Graph, deprecated in version 2007 (or 2009, don't know very well) but sure for a very long time backward compatibility.

See the attached: to modify the embed "dizque" -diagram don't need to open excel (what probably have a lot of plug-ins, some one perhaps trial), power point, which version 2007 is very very slow, autocad, who eat machines like me french chips ... only a soft and fast little program, and free.

Microsoft graph must to be scriptable, but can't find the obj collection.

Regards. Alvaro.

[ptc-1368288]

"Microsoft Graph" is metafile, i.e: raster and not vector graphic. As you stretch the graph it zooms therefore destroys the graphic. Same gyzma drawn on graphic package would preserve shapes. If the need in a Mathcad work sheet is for "stretchable graphic", embed from a "Vector graphic package". This subject came up in another thread and a web site given, that compares/comments several dozens of raster/vector converters ... none is perfect. To my knowledge some years ago, there is no "small vector graphic package". But why not use Intellicad ? It was advertised by PTC compatible with Mathcad. Intellicad used to be freeware, nearly totally compatible with AutoCad, at least it does open Autocad, complete the drawing session and save as Intellicad and open again in Mathcad.



jmG

[TomGutman]

>>"Microsoft Graph" is metafile, i.e: raster and not vector graphic. <<

The Windows metafile format is essentially vector graphics (it is a record of GDI calls). It has provision for embedding bitmap images (raster), but that is not the overall format.
__________________
� � � � Tom Gutman