Once again, I am battling Creo to do the simplest things anyone can do on a computer. I don't get it—did Creo developers make it a point to make simple tasks as complicated and counterintuitive as they could imagine?
All I need to do: to save an assembly file in a different folder. When I select Save As, a window opens for saving a file—but it doesn't let me save the file! I have no idea why this window even opens up. I can do complex tasks in every other program, except for Creo it seems, which saps me of patience and time for the simplest tasks anyone can possibly imagine.
Not a buyer, Creo. Not a buyer.
Update: Apparently, Creo doesn't like it when I try to save a file with the same name but in a different folder. "Save As" works as expected if I change the file name, but apparently Creo developers assumed that no one would ever want to save a file with the same name but in a different folder.
Why, that would just be of no use to anyone, I suppose. I would love to look at their design documents.
That's because the surest way to make everyone miserable is to have multiple objects with the same name. Which one is the right one?
One project I was on had people making copies everywhere; like there were 12 copies of the same assembly in different folders and each person could be working on their own version, but come time to put them into the next level of assembly, which one is the 'right' one? Many of them were just making 'temp' versions to check things out and were in folders named 'temp_something' or 'test_something', but not all of them. And the latest version or the most recent version weren't necessarily the 'right' version. Oh, what a mess.
If you need a copy in another folder, Windows does that and does it well.
If you need to make a backup to save a version in case things go badly, Creo has Backup.
David—the appropriate file name is for you and your team to determine. If naming different versions of the same file is a problem, you can establish a process whereby members in your team use different names. No need for software to impose its assumptions of what is proper on everybody—especially when those assumptions are not right all the time.
I tell you, I have rarely been this frustrated at software. Usability matters too. I am okay with spending an hour figuring out how to do something complex. But spending an hour figuring out how do simple things like saving a file, just because PTC devel thought it was cute to reinvent the wheel and completely change how "Save As" works?
No, thanks. Whatever advantages such features might have, they don't trump the costs—namely the lower usability of the software.
Why not dedicate devel resources toward tangibly improving what the software does instead of taking simple features that work well and make them so complex that suddenly one needs a course to use them again?
...and the problem you describe, David, is solved by using version-control software like Perforce—something I imagine PTC developers would be familiar with because most developers use such software. I think that PTC is imposing a bad version of "Save As" on its users under the wrong assumptions.
As a user, I want the ability to save a file under the name of my choosing, in the location of my choosing, as painlessly and quickly as possible. And that includes saving a file with the same name but elsewhere. I do it all the time and it works great. We use version-control software to ensure that the latest good version of a file is in a stable directory that everyone else can access to check out the file.
No need for such features.
PTC is more about maintaining a consistency and the backup function has been there since day one from decades ago. I can open Pro|E 18 files in Creo 2.0 and it is the same as the day I left it there.
Maybe Creo is not for you. But I am glad that what I learned back in the 90's is still relevant today. This might be the -only- software I can say that about these days. Maybe it is a bit cultish for me to feel to this way, but there it is.
PTC put a method in place to prevent problems and you look to work around it; a work around that is as simple as using the operating system to copy and paste. Unlike other software you have used, Creo allows users to make complex systems and encouraging users in bad behavior is counterproductive.
I think you are special in your needs. I see no other users asking for the Save As function to work as you like. That includes the PTCuser board, which goes back before 2000.
What might also interest you is that when you do a Save As, it doesn't switch the context to the new place, but continues to work on the old ones and when you perform a Backup it does switch to the new context.
Thanks for explaining version control software and file naming. It reminds me of when I started in CAD. And, how only 10 years after that when PTC was incorporated and started selling Pro/Engineer. I might still have some of the ads in the old Machine Design magazines from rev 4 or 5 that I kept from when it was first widely marketed.
No David. I am not special in my needs. I am simply a user who wants to do what I can do in, get this:
Every other software tool, be it SolidWorks, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, MATLAB, R, you name it.
You say that preventing users from saving a file with the same name in different folders can lead to confusion about which is the latest version. I say the location of the file is more than enough for you to tell which version is the latest.
But regardless, version control is something that you should do with version-control software, largely because file naming is only a speck of what you need to do to ensure you have the latest and greatest in a functioning state in a stable location.
Forcing users to change the name of the file in order to save it in a different location doesn't even begin to ensure version control for that file.
FYI, version control is not something you do as a beginner in industry. It is something all major software development companies are doing. It is a critical part of the software development process, but I guess you can't expect everyone to know that.
I don't want nor need another software package to do version control. Creo does what it does and I know how to use it. If I needed more, there is Windchill. Thanks anyway. I know Teamcenter and it ties your hands more than I ever wished. But I know how to use that too. Creo is not like "any other piece of software" and in more cases than not, I actually appreciate that. management software is part of a bigger picture to manage a lot of different product life cycle modules. Creo is a small link in a much larger chain. I for one am satisfied that PTC saw to it that I understood their means and methods so this was not an issue for me 15 years ago or today.
The most frustrating piece of software I even used was from Adobe Systems. Don't get me started!
We are here to help people understand how to use their software when they have an issue they simply can't find a way around. We also get stuck from time to time in something seemingly trivial. We help each other! PTC has its flaws, no doubt. But we are here to help, not take a bashing from someone who hasn't even taken the time to review the primer or learned how to navigate the software at a basic level.
We are most happy to help you navigate this "archaic" software package when you need help. But when we provide such, please leave it at that. It is what it is and PTC will not change the way it works anytime soon. There are much more exciting things we would rather PTC concentrate on making the overall experience even better.
save as backup" in a different folder without changing name" is very much there in creo . and i have been doing that for years now...did i miss something?
Look. People might well want to save a file in a different folder while using the same name *without* intending the new file to be a backup. It's a usability issue is all. I can save files in a blink of an eye, using any name I want, in any folder I want, in any other application. In SolidWorks, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, MATLAB, you name it.
But you come to Creo, and suddendly it's a science. You can save a file in a different folder using "Save As", but not with the same name. Or, it seems, you can use some "save as backup" option to save the file elsewhere using the same name—though if your motive is not to create a backup file, then you are likely to not even notice that option.
I would rather stare at the blinding sun for 60 seconds than have to use Creo on a daily basis for work. I don't care how long these misguided options have been around—they are still misguided.
so i want to save a assembly file with the same name but in a different folder..so what changes? and if they both have the same name..so one is going to be backup right?
No Rohit. A file with the same name in a different location can be simply another version of the same file. The files may be the same, but their purposes are different, and if you as a user are thinking "I need another version of this file", you are not likely to experiment with the menu option that says "save as backup" or whatever that option might be.
It's a matter of usability.
if one has mac and other windows...so that means they are different ..so they will have separate name..they can only have the same name when they are 100% similar....and then the one will be called a backup....
there is no concept of working directory in solidworks....
Few suggestions for you...
1. Get a job in which you don't have to use Creo
2. Go on a training course and learn how to use Creo
but whatever one you choose please stop complaining!
Thousands of users over many years have produced fantastic products in Pro/Engineer and Creo without the need to tell the rest of the world how much they dislike it.
i have issues with creo 2.0 the detailing area (symbols creation etc...)..but the point is its a nice and powerful software...
solidworks...is very easy to use...but they are still putting in options..which have been there in creo/proe since ages...
i have been using solidworks for 3+ years now....and creo for 7 years now...
There is a reason why Pro/ENGINEER and Creo have been in decline for years. You're right—I should simply use a tool designed by people who understand how important usability is. Like SolidWorks.
Spare me the manager-type comments. Believe it or not, outside of your team, nobody cares much about your seniority.
There'd be no two different design softwares if there'd be no two different people both needing a design software.
Yes, Creo is different and at many functionalities archaic, but as Antonius has pointed out, people using Pro/E or Creo got used to some of these things, because you know things that do work don't need to be changed all the time. It could happen that once changed, they'd not work at all.
Just think of what value it'd add to the existing userbase.
Well, we could save to a different folder on the fly, but when all the models used actually need to be in the same Working Directory anyway because of a functionalities like for instance Replace Component. What if I want to work with Creo Parametric offline then? That means out of PDM system. What if Creo tends to crash if I try to load many of the different models from different folders other than WD? What about the meaning of Session in Creo? How would it all have to change then so we get the "Save As"?
This is really asking for trouble.
PTC has tried to change some things over time, like for instance the measurement tool. In my opinion the result it got to should have never come to light.
PLEASE, If you need help, ask for help, we are more than happy to answer questions...If you want to gripe and complain, go to the solidworks forum and tell them how bad Creo is, I'm sure everyone over there would love to hear all the gory details.
The answer to your original question prior to all the ... is FILE - SAVE AS - SAVE A BACKUP.
i said the same..but it seems..he does not want a backup....i fail to understand that..how can two files have the same name..and be in different folder but can't be a backup.....
Sorry to disappoint with the manager-type comments and guess what...I don't care about my seniority either (why ever you brought that up is beyond me). It's just a title and I don't consider myself any better or worse than anybody else...I have been a user for a long time and have helped many users with issues over the years. As Stephen Williams quite rightly points out all members of this forum use it to ask for help and to provide others with help. We really all could do without having to listen to members like you bitch and complain over 'usability'. No CAD software is perfect, they all have their good points and bad points and over time the software companies make an attempt at getting rid of the bad points...not always successfully but generally people get on with what they have. Maybe you could try and do the same.