ACCEPTED SOLUTION
Accepted Solutions
I have found the resolution to this issue. There is an option within the family table UI to switch external refs to instances. This results in the merge/cut out updating based on the assembly instance as desired.
This results in the following reference graph from the GRV where the cutout is now driven by the assembly instance as desired.
The cutout in the assembly instance.
Have not figured out the root cause yet but there are some indications that the models are not reflecting your design intent. I have not seen any circular reference warnings or .crc files being written which is good.
But...
Creo 4 M150.
Warning message presented at the command line:
•Warning: Part X_INST has reference to generic assembly XY.
This message suggests that the reference to the generic instance of the assembly is why the cut out is not rotating. It appears that the cut out is regenerating using the position of component Y in the generic instance of XY.asm. This is consistent with the state of the models when regenerated but not your design intent. It should reference instance XY_INST.asm to locate the coutout accurately.
Glyph in model tree indicating something, It is similar to failed regen but not an exact match. This is the part with the merge/cutout so it is suspicious. Does anyone know what this X superscript glyph indicates?
The suspicious looking glyph is not a glyph. It is the grater than/less than symbols placed around an instance name. I don't think it is displayed correctly in this case. I renamed the generic model from "X" to "name" and then it becomes clear as seen below.
This is the reference viewer graph (Creo 4 M150) of the merge/cut out feature in the XY_INST.asm. As you can see Creo is showing that the cutout is driven by the generic XY.asm hence the position is not updating. The cutout would have to be driven by the assembly xy instance that has the rotated part Y.prt. The models reflect what is documented by this graph. Can you check the reference graph in Creo 4 of a model set that was created in an earlier version (3-) and compare it to see of the references are different than shown here?
I have found the resolution to this issue. There is an option within the family table UI to switch external refs to instances. This results in the merge/cut out updating based on the assembly instance as desired.
This results in the following reference graph from the GRV where the cutout is now driven by the assembly instance as desired.
The cutout in the assembly instance.
It does not regenerate correctly in Creo 4 M150. I did note that the structure of these models is not identical to the test case you initially posted.
Have you verified that this set of models behaves correctly when retrieved and regenerated in Creo 3 or earlier? I suspect that it may not based on what I am seeing but you should confirm that. It is possible that this is a bug. The first test for that will be to confirm that these models regen correctly in an earlier release of Creo or Pro/E.
The constraints of this model set are not identical to the Creo 4 test case you posted earlier. This may or may not be relevant but introduces additional variables. The clocking angle for Y is controlled by a relation in the generic assembly is only one if the differences I noted. There is also Pro/Program involved in the regen, I don't think it is an issue in this context but does convolute the debugging.
Your parts use matched absolute accuracy (this is good) but the assembly is relative accuracy at the default value. I have seen mismatched accuracy cause problems with external refs features such as merge/cut out. The cut out feature is completed in the assembly the way the models sit now.
When I regenerate this assembly family table with the external ref options active there are several warnings shown when regenerating the instance X1INST.asm. The most relevant in this context is that X1INST.prt has a reference to the generic assembly X1. As long as this is the case it is not going to follow the behavior in your earlier test case.
Hi @MT_WashPA , I don't know how things worked at your company before, but I strongly recommend that your X parts should have the "ref. model" column in their family table. Otherwise, how would Creo know what context to use when regenerating the cut-outs? Anyway, the UI shortcut function pointed out by @tbraxton (switch external references to instances) does not seem to work to "fix" your x1 and x2 parts in the .7z files provided in this thread.
However, using this procedure does make your test drawings look correct (x2_PTC_HELP.7z data used in the example):
1) activate the X2 component in your assembly X2.ASM
2) edit the family table of this component
3) add the "Reference model" column, and specify the X2.ASM as the model
4) specify the correct context for other instances of X2 - for example:
5) accept the changes to the table, regenerate the drawing:
below are the screenshots missing in the previous reply.
*added -a to both the generic and the instance name*
*the assemblies generic name updates in the parts family table but the
instance's name does not.*
below are the screenshots missing in the previous reply.
*added -a to both the generic and the instance name*
*the assemblies generic name updates in the parts family table but the
instance's name does not.*
Hello @MT_WashPA
Even though post is now closed, I took some time to look at it this morning.
The first Cut Out id 32114 of X2.PRT:
- was produced in an old Creo Parametric version (One Pro/ENGINEER version which was still calling Menu Manager - visible upon Edit Definition)
- was producing behavior you wanted
- But this behavior was nevertheless NOT expected for the following reason. >Info >Reference Viewer => Show >Dependencies on it was highlighting:
- Dependency to Y2.prt
- But NO DEPENDENCY to X.ASM
=> There was therefore no reason to produce an outcome depending on the way (placement constraints) how Y2.PRT was assembled in the generic assembly
=> This cutout should therefore have produced the same geometry in all instances of the given generic assembly (taking definition ONLY from Y2.PRT, and not on the way how Y2.PRT is assembled in the context of X2.ASM)
The second Cut Out id 225192 of this same part X2.PRT
- Is produced in a recent version of Creo Parametric
- Does NOT produce (per default) what you want
- And this is nevertheless expected from a technical standpoint, because >Info >Reference Viewer => Show >Dependencies shows dependcy on Y2.prt (of course), BUT ALSO FROM X2.ASM (the generic)
- Therefore:
- Without additional level of definition, it is expected now (in contrast which was proposed in old Cut Out Features) that part instances called in asm instances refers to this generic X.ASM (and therefore in the way how Y2.PRT is assembled in this context)
- And to avoid this, you need an External Reference definition to X2INST.ASM in the scope of the part family table, referring to Assembly Instance name, as @pausob already pointed out (Thanks a lot for this!!)
Additional info: Related to that, if the second Cut Out Feature is redefined, and then switched to External as follows:
=> Dependency in Reference Viewer lists then ONLY Y2.PRT (and not X2.ASM anymore, like the old Cut Out Feature)
=> But this information is now correct, which means that the cut out, in the "external definition context" is now really completely independent from placement constraint & Orientation of Y2.PRT (not what you want in this context, but "Reference Viewer" information is now reliable and correct)
Therefore, in short:
- You absolutely need this External Reference Configuration in part family table for the wished instance (pointing to correct assembly instance name)
- This is officially documented in Tip: Adding Reference Models section of our Help Centers as follows:
It is useful to add external references to the family tree of a model for a family of assemblies when a component refers to the generic assembly or another component in the generic assembly.
Changes in the reference assembly or component can cause changes to the geometry of the component with the external reference.
To ensure that the geometry of the component with the external reference is updated, create a Family Table for the component with the external reference in which each instance has an external reference to the appropriate assembly instance. The assembly Family Table must also have a corresponding item for the component with the external reference.
Refer also to those examples here confirming this approach as recommended to be in supported conditions (there is no material for a SPR on the new Cut Out Features behaving now as expected. The old Cut Out features, even though were proposing a solution you were happy with, were nevertheless not consistent nor reliable in term of dependency information in Reference Viewer)
AN evidence tha old cut out feature was incorrect (whereas new one is correct now) can be demonstrated as follows (shown in Old_versus_New_Cut_Out_Feature.mp4 attached movie):
- Delete the entire Asm Family Table
- Edit dimension of CAVITY_ASSEMBLY_PL (Assembly Datum Plane) from 0 to 180 degrees
- Observe that Cut Out is incorrect for the old Cut Out Feature, whereas it is now correct, expected, and reliable for the new Cut Out Feature
Now if my understanding of your last post is correct, you're looking for a way to avoid:
- defining external reference to asm instance in part family table
- using Assembly Family Tables (just using Part Family Table, and call X2 generic or X2INST instance, based on a paraeter value driving orientation of Y2.PRT)
If my understanding is correct, you may want to drive this with good relations and correlated Pro/PROGRAM definition.
=> Way to do this is hlighted in second attached movie named Alternate_Technique_Without_Assembly_Family_Table.mp4
=> Outcome of this movie was backed up, and uploaded in the third attachment
Hope this helps to have a good understanding of the background, and to propose a solution which may fulfill your business needs without requiring usage of Assembly Family Tables.
Regards,
Serge
