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Question

Family Table Revision Control Issue

Forum|Forum|13 years ago
November 7, 2012
18 replies
6346 views

Hi all,

A little background information first:

Our engineering departmentrecently transitioned from WF4/Windchill 9 to Creo/Windchill 10. One of the biggest issues we've run into involves revision controls for family table instances. For simpler components, like screws and washer, we have traditionally utilized a single generic component to drive a family table of part numbers, each with their own drawings. In the past, modifying a single component required the designers to check out the generic component and revise the specified instance only. The rest of the family table remained untouched, and did not need to be revised. Since the transition, CREO/WC requires the user to revise and check out the entire family table to modify any one single instance. Obviously, this is creating an administrative nightmare, as we are now forced to roll revisions on the rest of the parts in the family table,which have not been modified.

Here is my question for those of you who may have encountered similar issues: What is the best practice for handling components like screws and washers? Is it better to keep all parts stand alone? Do you utilize a single drawing for all similar components, simply using tables to display part variances and revising that drawing whenever a change is made?

I'm curious to hear how other people in industry have been using their family tables.

Thanks in advance for your advice and expertise!

Jason France

Design Engineer

Benchmade Knife Co.

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Surfacing

Show previous replies

B

BrentDrysdale

12-Amethyst

Hi Chris,
My understanding is that Replace Unrelated Component was introduced in WF4
and I remember some enhancement for WF5. I found a link on the PTC site
that describes this<but">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/note.jsp?&icg_dbkey=826&im_dbkey=50811>but
that may not work if you don't have
ptc.com login so I have pasted the text below. You are right that to use
the specific Interchange assembly functionality you need AAX but to replace
a part you no longer need AAX.

*Enhancement Details*

*Replace Unrelated Components*

You can replace a component with an unrelated part or subassembly.
Pro/ENGINEER provides the tools to map the references required from both
objects to ensure that there is no feature failure due to missing
references.

*Product Information*

*Product*

PTC Creo Parametric<">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/index.jsp?show=y&version=4075&product=403>

*Product / Module*

PTC Creo Parametric<">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/index.jsp?show=y&version=4075&module=403>

*Version*

Wildfire 4.0<">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/index.jsp?show=y&version=4075&product=403>

*Product Functional Area*

Assembly<">http://www.ptc.com/appserver/wcms/relnotes/index.jsp?show=y&version=4075&product=403&functional=2928>

*User Interface Location*

Edit > Replace

*Processes, Initiatives, and Best Practices*

*Benefits and Description*

You can replace a part or assembly component at any assembly level and the
target component and all its children are automatically replaced. From the
Replace dialog box, you can map references from one object to the other.
Using a table, you can highlighted and color-code reference tag for each
target and source. Advanced and more granular reference definitions are
also available.

Enhancements include:

- A method to map the assembly references between a model in an assembly
and the model that is to replace it
- A prompt for you to confirm that the assembly references are mapped
correctly before the model is replaced
- The option to manually change the mapped references, if necessary
- Failure resolution procedures if the reference mapping method fails
- Mapping table storage so that you can automatically replace multiple
occurrences of the same model

You can automatically find pairs of references between the outgoing
component and the replacement component. There are several pairing rules:

- Same Name—Automatically pairs objects with the same name and type.
- Component Interfaces—Searches for the interfaces with the same names
and then examines each definition. If the same reference types are used in
each interface then these can be mapped automatically.
- Same History—Searches the replacement model for any external
references to the original model. If found, these references are
automatically paired.
- Same Parameters—Automatically pairs parameters with the same name and
type.

After autotagging, autoselection, or manual selection, a pairing table is
created. You can store the pairing table in the current assembly or, *if
you have an AAX license*, you may create a new interchange assembly. Both
methods have advantages and disadvantages.

Storing a pairing table in the context of the current assembly:

- Advantage: Models used for replacement are not modified.
- Disadvantage: During subsequent replacements on other assemblies, you
must search and find the appropriate assemblies that define tags for
outgoing and incoming components. This may be time-consuming.

Storing a pairing table as a separate interchange assembly *(please note,
this requires an AAX license)* :

- Advantage: You can easily find all interchange assemblies in which
this component is located.
- Advantage: All possible candidates are offered for replacement.
- Disadvantage: It modifies the models (unwanted with library parts).

Hope this helps.
Regards,

*Brent Drysdale*
*Senior Design Engineer*
Tait Communications

J

JonathanHodgson

13-Aquamarine

On our install at least, Replace Unrelated is *not* available using ProE
Foundation - AAX does give me this function. Other licence options may
also work, but normally I just choose AAX when I want it.

It's a really good tool when you've got it, though!

Jonathan

R

RogerCrill

1-Visitor

Jon,

About 2 years ago the new maintenance releases were to have a
modification to the licensing for Unrelated Components. If you had a
model copied from what you are replacing (surface ids are identical),
you didn't need AAX. Once you access the reference table you need the
license.

If you make a series of parts by copying from a master they will change
out as easily as changing family table instances. That is assuming you
don't make changes that replace the surfaces required for assembly.

Roger Crill

Sr. CAD Administrator

Manitowoc Cranes
T 920.683.6554

F 920.683.6277
"Integrity, Commitment to Stakeholders, and
Passion for Excellence"

M

magnus.salomons

15-Moonstone

In Reply to Jonathan Hodgson:

On our install at least, Replace Unrelated is *not* available using ProE
Foundation - AAX does give me this function. Other licence options may
also work, but normally I just choose AAX when I want it.

It's a really good tool when you've got it, though!

Jonathan

What M-Release are you using? On both M100 and M160 as we're using now it's available in Foundation.

This was a mess by PTC as first it was available in Foundation in early M-Releases and then they removed it saying it was a mistake and it was intended to be dependent on AAX...

I can't remember if this was already in WF4 or in WF5 that they changed it back and forth.

J

JonathanHodgson

13-Aquamarine

Hi Magnus,

We're running WF4, M220.

Regards,

Jonathan

G

gkemner

1-Visitor

Happy New Year!

I have a family table part, washer.prt.4 that had several instances deleted from the table along with several new instances added to the table and then checked in so that it is now washer.prt.5 in commonspace.

However I still need the instances that got deleted from washer.prt.4

I logged in as org admin but Intralink will not allow me to delete washer.prt.5 since that would delete the new instances that were created with the .5 version. It also will not allow me to add the missing instances back into the .5 version family table do to file naming conflict (since those instances already exist in the .4 version and are in commonspace.) Performing an update or synchronize does not fix the file naming conflict.

I seem to be stuck... Any thoughts???

Intralink 10.0

Thanks!

D

DonSenchuk

12-Amethyst

Last year I used CS4975 to correct some family table issues similar to what you're describing. Worked ok for me but, of course, no guarantees.

J

jellis

1-Visitor

Hi Greg.

For what it's worth here's how I would attempt to resolve in PDMLink 10.1. Perhaps it might apply to ILink 10?

From the info page of the generic for v5 pick the Actions->Delete and then collect the instances. Delete the Latest Iterationof the generic and the instances with the same modification time stamp. If successful then Check out v4 of generic and recreate the new instances.

2nd possible workaround: Change config to allow check in of non-latest then try to edit v4 of the generic to add the new instances from v5. Hopefully you can resolve the name conflict after saving the edited v4 generic??? If so then check in edited v4 of the generic and set the option back to disallow check in of non-latest.

Best Regards, Jim

In Reply to Greg Kemner

Last year I used CS4975 to correct some family table issues similar to what you're describing. Worked ok for me but, of course, no guarantees.

https://support.ptc.com/appserver/cs/view/solution.jsp?n=CS4975&posno=7&q=deleted%20instance&nav=ptcproductgroups||||Product+Group||&source=Search

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