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1-Visitor
November 28, 2012
Question

Creo vs. Solidworks vs. Inventor

  • November 28, 2012
  • 45 replies
  • 150621 views

I feel like I need to vent a little, so I was hoping to get a discussion started as to why Creo has any advantage over the other popular 3D CAD modeling systems. I want to like this product, I really do, but right now, I feel like I am being forced to learn a dying system. Creo will not survive if they do not change the way things are done.

 

I am new to Creo (6 weeks), but I have used Inventor for the past 3 years. In my opinion, there is no comparison between the two. Inventor is significantly better than Creo in pretty much every single way I have been using the system.

 

Component Modeling:

Creo is completely unintuitive. For the novice trying to obtain a grasp on this program, it is next to impossible without a significant amount of training from PTC. This is probably part of their business plan because truthfully, their documentation and training programs are superior to the software itself. It seems like the designers of this software have had no personal experience using a system. The user interface is obviously a copy of what Autodesk has been doing - the Ribbon UI. However, they have failed at the ease and convenience that Inventor provides and it seems like their employees do not understand why they are programming their product in this way.

 

Right clicking for everything is a nuisance. The commands should be explicit. Once a command has been initialized, it should state what is needed to accomplish a successful feature. When I hover over some of the commands, it's as if the programmer just did not understand the point of what he/she was trying to create. For instance if you hover over swept blend, the information contained says "create a swept blend". Inventor shows a preview of what the function actually does in a quick movie if you hover over it, plus it provides a link to learn further information and even provides an exercise showing explicitly how to use the function and what must be defined for the function to work. PTC expects that you just know that you need to add certain references without actually telling you that you need it. For instance, the rotate feature needs a centerline (should be able to use any datum axis) which you then need to right click and define it as the rotational axis. If you try to do this through the message box, it will not work. There is no documentation in the help file saying this needs to be done. My anger continues to grow.

 

Also, patterning complex features is pretty much a null exercise, since it takes Creo 20 minutes to regenerate the model. I have never experienced this with Inventor. Their software updates automatically after a function is confirmed. There is no need to repaint/regenerate.

 

Assemblies:

The constraint system seems to have a mind of its own. After applying an angle constraint just this morning, and the preview showing the correct orientation, after confirming, the model just sort of reversed the direction and tilted on another axis which was untouched. I know it's difficult to picture this. But just picture me wishing that Creo was tangible and that I could soak it in Ethanol and watch it burn a slow painful death.

 

That's enough.

 

Please provide some insight as to why this program is any good at all. I need to like it. I want to like it. I have to like it. But right now, it is the bane of my existence. Some of the simplest commands that I try to initiate do not work as intended. There are way too many idiosycrasies that 'just have to be known' through experience. There is no way that someone could just hop on this program and start using it. However, with Inventor, they have actually put work and research into making their product user friendly. So much so that at my previous position, I could educate a technician in a day or two and they are off and running producing components, assemblies, and even drawings.

 

Please help me think of Creo as a helpful tool instead of a hinderence and outdated piece of garbage.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Regards,

~Bart

 

 

45 replies

1-Visitor
January 3, 2013

I wanted to repost this from another user since the PTC forum admins decided to delete it or prevent access to it:

"greed has taken over PTC ,they do it by making unintuitive software then selling tutorials for it.if it was possible i expect siemens or Dassault to take over PTC and fire whole design department of PTC.

only way to hurt PTC and make PTC listen is pirate it as much as possible.people are not installing even pirated copies.it's so bad.

life is too short to play with these kind of softwares.i have seen much of the older guys showing how to work with pro-e,by the time one has all the tricks of pro-engineer you are in your late 40s and 50s. and soon you be in your 60s.

when i see people saying words like "powerful" and "initutive" in their video guide for pro engineer,i smile on inside "yea right! but buddy you are 90years old to know how it's initutive" pro-engineer doesn't leave enough live neurons in your brain to solve design problems.

using it is like wrestling with some artificial intelligence who knows a$$backward way of doing things better than human."

17-Peridot
January 3, 2013

That was pretty strong language. Most forums would ban people for even suggesting what was suggested in the original post.

I can't speak as a new user since I've learned Pro/E a long time ago but I will agree that intuitive is not how I would describe the new Creo interface. The lack of intelligent prompts and outdated error laden help files with poor context sensitivity makes the product almost unusable for new users who have not bothered to go through the basic interface tutorials and help files. But all this has already been discussed above.

10-Marble
January 3, 2013

Frustration speaks out from this user. Thruth uses strong language. Lies are always sugar coated. I know and understand how he feels.

Patriot_1776
22-Sapphire II
January 14, 2013

While I'll be the first to say I absolutely HATE the creo interface, even more than I hated (and still hate) the WF interface, Pro/E is still far more powerful than SW or Inventor. If all you're doing is putting round holes in square blocks, SW or AI will work fine. If you're doing top-down design, or complex surfacing, the Pro/e has them beat hands down. I've been on Pro/E over 15 years, and much PREFERRED the Unix version (you generally young and inexperienced guys obviously never used it) because it was faster and FAR more stable. Unix is a better system, PERIOD. It just doesn't play nice with all the spoon-fed windows crap the kids seem to like. I also spent time on, and because very good at SW......and I HATED it.

PTC needs to remove their cranium from between their gluteus maximus and FIX the gui, fix some of the long-standing bugs, and stap away from it before they screw it up again. Look at my album and try and reproduce some of those in SW.....I dare ya.

16-Pearl
January 15, 2013

Frank i always wanted to know from ppl that dont like GUI what would a good GUI look like?

It seems to me that even they dont know. Ive seen CATIA,SW,Inventor,NX. Basicly all except CATIA are kinda Ribbonish. Creo has dashboard, SW has vertical panel with options, CATIA has popup windows with options(havent seen v6).

I dont think GUI is problem at all. All i want is GUI that guides you from A to Z to complete feature or anticipates users next move/choice to speed up things. Something like Creo Simulate lite has. Pro users dont care about this anyway but new ppl can get the hang of software faster.

15-Moonstone
January 15, 2013

When we signed on over a year ago we chose Creo because we were convinced this software would allow us to do difficult drafts, lofting and filleting that our original software struggles with. I still believe we have made the correct choice in this regards.

What we were not prepared for is how completely unintuitive this software is. We have not abandoned our original software even though we've tried learning Creo for over a year.

What I find incredibly unintuitive is how you have to struggle to find the correct context; many times you are not aware that there is even one available. Do you right click, do you left click and then right click, is it up above, is there a dropdown, where do you look for a continuation of a command? I have no clue sometimes with the order dependencies; sometimes thinking that you flat out can't do an operation only to later discover the unintuitive trick.

PTC gives the illusion of keeping up with the rest of the CAD crowd by releasing the "Ribbon" interface. They miss the bigger point that being more user friendly involves an intelligent grouping of commands and contexts.

I don't know how they came up with the Creo product, but they certainly could have used the advice of their own CAD crowd and very much from CAD users who came over to Pro Engineer from other CAD packages. Ultimately the product needs improvements that gets new users up and running much quicker. This can be done; I've not had near the struggle getting up and running with the previous 3 CAD systems I've used. There are some glaring deficiencies with Creo's interface.

15-Moonstone
January 15, 2013

I am a Pro|Engineer fan . Its been 6 years i have been on Pro/Engineer..I think its never that important that how fast you can model something..its always how fast you can make changes. I use Solidworks regularly..everytime I use it..I only feel....its more automated version of Pro|Engineer.

come one guys it(Pro|Engineer) is the most powerful 3D cad software.thats the good part.

Creo user interface...i am not at all liking it. may be because i am used to the old interface.i think they could have implemented all the new things minus the new user interface. do not like the new measure tool also.

trust me if you know Pro|Engineer better it would be your fav. software too .

Pro|Engineer 2001....was the best!

1-Visitor
January 15, 2013

I think what I like best about CREO is that I am getting a new computer, since the one I am using currently (that is above minimum specs) continually crashes from the program, delightfully in the middle of a model. Even though I save every 5 minutes, it still takes another 5 minutes to reboot, and another 5 minutes to redo the work that was lost.

So maybe I will start to like it better when/if it actually works as intended.

I seriously do want to like it, and am starting to learn some of the idiosyncrasies, but it could just be so much better if for every feature, there was a sample of its use with the necessary workflow outlined explicitly, so as Paul mentioned in a previous post, you do not have to spend hours trying to find the correct click orders.

PTC definitely needs to perform some user polls for improvements instead of just deciding what to do themselves. Hopefully at least one manager sees these posts and most of the users' gripes and makes a concerted effort to effect some change.

1-Visitor
January 15, 2013

I've resisted responding to this thread for quite some time, but it's kind of like a car wreck on the side of a freeway...you just gotta take a peak and see how the carnage is.

For my part, I was one of those "dinosaurs" that started on Rev. 17 with "no live neurons" in my brain left to solve design problems I'm happy to be mostly done with the menu mangler of Pre-Wildfire, sometimes miss the robustness of 2001 and Wildfire 4 and don't miss the preemptive Creo attempt in Creo Elements /Pro 5.0. I can say that today I'm fairly comfortable with Creo 2.

As far as new users adapting to the software, I've had the fortune of training many high school kids in each release since Wildfire 4. None of these kids had seen CAD before and for the most part, they've latched onto the concept with no problems and some with truly astounding success. They key for them was in their expectations. Starting out they had no preconceptions about what button should do what, they just followed instructions and got used to what it took to make the software work. Incidentally, one thing I always teach them is to watch for things changing color to red, because that usually means the software needs another input. Creo 2 has been the release that they've started using the quickest and with the least amount of training.

Last thing...I generally play around with Solidworks every other release or so. It's not the most fun to pick up again, but after a while I can make it do the job.

SpaceClaim was quite easy to pick up and does have some neat features, while it is challenging to make some features work.

CoCreate is a royal pain to me despite how much its user base loves the software.

Creo Direct seems fairly easy but still lacking in some features.

Autodesk's Fusion was also similar to SpaceClaim to me.

That's my 2 cents.

1-Visitor
January 15, 2013

Sheesh, this thread is freaking me out. Well, not really, but maybe I'm a little worried. I've been using Pro/E for almost 15 years and don't know much else. My company currently is on WF5, but we're talking about going to Creo 2 soon. We have a couple seats of SolidWorks now, but I haven't used it. We're only using it to share data with some of our vendors, but our guys who are using it seem to like it.

So after all this time, my career is pretty well tied to Pro/E. This thread has me worried that I'm tied to a dinosaur. I thought Pro/E was still the #1 CAD software out there, even if it has lost ground in recent years. In fact, I heard somewhere that PTC was making a bit of a comeback in the CAD market. Is that not true? Does anybody know the numbers now? I mean, what's the market share for each CAD package, and how is it trending? I don't want to be stuck some day with nothing but a couple decades of experience in a software package that nobody uses any more. In other words, do I need to pester my boss to allow me to get trained in SolidWorks before it's too late?

17-Peridot
January 15, 2013

I popped onto SolidWorks for 3 months and within a week I was productive with no formal training. If you get the option, definitely try it. What you learned in Pro/E is relevant in SW. Parametric modeling is a discipline more than tool dependent.

As for WF to Creo, not sure if you will be completely lost. It is just as fun as it was promised to be. If you go through the turorials, all seems fine... but the tutorials are geared to the "simple mode" of operation. I will suggest making use of the available tutorials that your upgrade license will provide.

There was only a few gotcha's that really locked me up. They are easily fixed or simply things I needed to understand. Relative Accuracy was probably the biggy. Again, if you get stuck, you have the customer support team. Frustrating as they may be, they will reply and try to get your questions answered in a reasonable amount of time. That reminds me, I need to check on a couple of open cases.

Market share? I think PTC has launched the Creo campaign to hype the software once again. This is the same that happened with the WildFire release. I think it is all hype and the bump in the numbers comes from this and this alone. In general, PTC has solution partners that have very expensive seats and a large install base. These are the core customers that keep PTC alive. Dragging in the small users is only a sideline. We are probably more a pain in their bum then we are revenue. I am sure that their CS is costing them as much as I pay for maintenance. With the bugs remaining the software, you almost cannot afford to drop maintenance.

I like SolidWorks because it has a lot in the core package, not all the optional, and costly extensions. Since the tool I use is my option for most clients, I am seriously considering SW as an expanded solution. Then again, and this is important, SolidWorks is built on a licensed engine from 2006. There will be big changes when they build their own core. This could change the cost structure, option packages, and overall user experience with the company. PTC may be a dinasour, but at least it is still alive and well. I see no reason for it to suddenly disappear. There are simply too many huge accounts depending on PTC.

1-Visitor
February 2, 2013

mmm you may be quite right, however let me ask you one thing.

When you switch girlfriend, do you talk to her in the same way you use to talk to your ex?

I hope your answer is no, so my point is forget abour your previous CAD software think in the way the new CAD software you are using, that´s it.

I started with autocad , then worked with Mechanical Desktop so no too much difference, then I worked with IDEAS , I wanted IDEAS to think in the way I was thinking (Mechanical Desktop) but i was wrong I started thinking the way IDEAS thougth.

Then I swiched to PRO/Wildfire 2.0 and I forgot about IDEAS everytime that I work with PRO or CREO.. It helps a lot

Regards

1-Visitor
February 13, 2013

When I started using CREO 2.0 I had the same problem, for some reason there is a conflict with Windows.

so I am an independent professional therefore I have to look by my self for a solution in regards of technical support with my laptop. So I have had some not good experiences taking my laptop with IT guys because they do not understand very well how CREO or other softwares that I run ( SAUER PLUS1 GUIDE) work.

then I decided to try fix my pc software...guess what.. after I run it CREO has not crashed again so far.

It has been 4 or 5 months ago. anyway this is my experience but you should contact the CREO support in order to let them fix it.

Have a nice day

Regards

1-Visitor
February 13, 2013

Awesome...thanks for the advice Antonio.

I was hoping there was just some small conflict. I will get with PTC Support and let you know.

17-Peridot
February 13, 2013

Bart, I had a serious problem with a corrupt model that pretty much became useless once I started playing with PhotoRender. This file also had images that somehow became corrupt. I went back to an earlier file and deleted all the likely offender having to do with these two actions and everything became reliable again.

Save those backup copies (don't purge) until you know you have a stable copy. Over all, my system is pretty stable with Creo. So it could well have something to do with file corruption. Once it starts, I recommend stepping back to an earlier version just in case.

1-Visitor
February 20, 2013

Your second paragraph says it all - Inventor 3 years Creo 6 weeks. I have been using Creo2 since its intro and Inventor for 6 weeks and I feels Creo2 has so much more to offer.

Automatic dimensioning, very robust automatic constraints and excellent graphics. You say PTC has copied the Inventor interface - well SolidWorks also has had the system for longer, and that doesn't stop it being better.

In Creo2 - you cant find a command then just use the search option - great for new users.

Use of Patterns in Creo2 is very easy both for features and components, as for it taking 20mins you must have nodded off or have a PC with petit mal.

I do like the way Inventor links the help files to the commands, but the same, and possibly better is achieved by support videos such as those I supply to my clients.

Different systems work in different ways and a complete novice to 3D cad will find any software easier to use than one already using something else.

Perhaps you should either be blaming your trainers or be reassesing how you used the training opportunity - did you want it to fail ir be successful?

1-Visitor
February 20, 2013

Unfortunately around 30% of the time I've found that the creo search option does not find the commands that I know exist. I'm thankful that I started back in the prewildfire days of pro-e when all of the options were grouped logically and visible in front of you in the menus.

1-Visitor
March 12, 2013

OK,

So I have given this program 6 months and I have come to the conclusion that it is officially the worst piece of software I have ever used in my life. That's it. No explanation needed. It's garbage.

After the bajillionth crash, the decision has been made.

Patriot_1776
22-Sapphire II
March 12, 2013

Make sure to write PTC and tell them, they need to know this kind of stuff.

1-Visitor
March 12, 2013

Funny thing is...I tried to tell them, but how they have their Case Logger and eSupport Portal set up, I do not have access to tell them these things since I don't have administrative rights to the SCN (which is further proof of this whole ecosystem being terrible).

I could go through my CAD admin, but he is already well aware of how I feel about this system. He hears my euphemized WTF!!! each time it crashes as his cube is adjacent to mine.

I really tried to like it and have gone through hoards of online tutorials, but I just cannot deal with a program that seems to hate me for some reason. It can't handle how fast I go through things...it's always stalling or unresponsive, or just gives me a fatal error message.

'Maybe I'll like it tomorrow.' That's what I have to keep telling myself.

1-Visitor
March 13, 2013

Hello Bart,

Wait a minute, It seems that you are so angry with CREO because it crashes so aften, am I right?

So if that is the case something is not right with your machine. I do not have an "approved" machine to run CREO but as I mentioned before once I ran the fix my pc software CREO has not crashed again ( 3 or 4 months ago). I can not tell you why ( I am not an IT guy) but it is something with windows that of course PTC must be aware of.

I have a Toshiba QOSMIO X505 18.7 inch screen, so it is designed for gaming not for enginnering software but is doing well so far.

I can tell you that just with the basic training for CREO will let you know the way it works or at least it worked for me.

Look my point is that we must "unlock" our mind to understand the softwares work. It could be thought but there is not other way.

I use to develop firmware for MICROCHIP microcontrollers in assembly code then I had to develop firmware for SAUER PLUS1 controllers and displays. They work different but inputs are inputs, digital is digital or analog is analog no matter what manufacturer does it

I hope this view points give you another picture of the issues.

Regards

1-Visitor
March 13, 2013

Hi Antonio,

I actually put a ticket in with the service department to have them configure my computer like they did for yours. It was actually due to your post that I requested the assistance, but I have not yet met my place in their queue.

And when I go to Creo, I leave notions of all other softwares or methodologies behind and use what was taught in my basic instruction class. I have also gone through numerous online eLearning modules.


The gripe is not only the crashing (which should be fixed soon), but also the feature flow. I know that I will excel at it one day, but it's taking entirely too long in my opinion (because most of it is not straightfoward). But, each day I need to use it, I give it another chance not thinking of anything that happened previously. Monday was not a good day, but I'm back at it today trying to implement some of the knowledge acquired through the eLearning and putting it to use towards NPD.

My high hope is that a few months from now, I can finally say I like, or hopefully 'love' Creo. It's just that right now, I am feeling the opposite. I am trying to convince the powers that be to let me attend PTC Live Global because I know I will learn a plethora of useful tips and tricks and be surrounded by people with a positive attitude towards the software with numerous examples of how helpful and how much better it is than all of the other CAD packages available.

So, the hope is still alive...

10-Marble
March 13, 2013

THIS is what I am talking about. HOPE, that some miracle will happen, keeps people buying newer software releases. Maybe you'll have to pay a few bucks to get in, but there is no way out ...

1-Visitor
March 21, 2013

I have been using Inventor for the past 4 years. In the mean time I ahve used a little bit of Solidworks.

Now I am using Creo 2.0 for about 3 months...

For 3D, Creo seems ok to me. it has some more functions to modulate in solid. In the surfaces the is something that I miss, that is the surfaces in transparency.

In the assembly Inventor it's A LOT superior in my opinion. PTC NEED TO WAKE UP!!!!!!. Where are the design acelerators? Chain transmission? Belt transmission? Involute spline transmission? and this get worst when you do not have lybrary!!!... In my opinion Creo2.0 in the assembly it's no good.

Drawing: Inventor it's a lot superior too. More intuitive. Easy to get dimensions, On Creo there is alot of mid clicking. And the right menu from the older versions (pro-engenieer) keeps on showing... And whe are in 2013 not in the 90's...

Resuming For the 3d Creo seems ok. It's little bit better compared to inventor or solidworks. In the 2D, assembly, there is a lot to do. My opinion.

Best regards

1-Visitor
March 22, 2013

Where are the design acelerators? Chain transmission? Belt transmission? Involute spline transmission? and this get worst when you do not have lybrary!!!... In my opinion Creo2.0 in the assembly it's no good.


you don't need design accelerators,you got mathcad or excel analysis for that,it's just that you have to prepare design in that first, not easy but that's how creo rolls i guess.

there is a belt function in mechanism.

if everything is like light,creo is like darkness,darkness has already reached there where light is arriving now,i mean to say it's not like PTC has made creo devoid of any tool, they have made everything in it.