Execution of Files undergoing conversion to Prime?

[StuartBruff]

I've just installed Prime and was trying out the converter to evaluate a worksheet I've just written. The worksheet generates 162 files as part of its operation. To my surprise, there are now 162 files on my HD with the same timestamp as the newly created mcdx file.

Given that Prime won't run the worksheet, this implies that M15 must be executing the original worksheet as part of its conversion process. Is this documented? I can't readily find it in help.

Stuart

[MikeArmstrong]

I've just installed Prime and was trying out the converter to evaluate a worksheet I've just written.

So you took the plunge

Given that Prime won't run the worksheet, this implies that M15 must be executing the original worksheet as part of its conversion process. Is this documented? I can't readily find it in help.

I would have thought that this is the case. So you ask Mathcad to convert the worksheet and it runs the 'scripted component' while it is converting!!! Seems a little strange and is poor behavior IMO. The data being written to these files might be dependant on user input variables and therefore another case where Prime cannot be used.

Mike

[StuartBruff]

Mike Armstrong wrote:

I've just installed Prime and was trying out the converter to evaluate a worksheet I've just written.

So you took the plunge

Yep. You can't complain about something about something if you haven't tried it ... oh, rats, of course you can - and it's makes the trip on the Outrage Bus so much more enjoyable if you don't actually have to back your assertions with anything more than conjecture and wild speculation.

Given that Prime won't run the worksheet, this implies that M15 must be executing the original worksheet as part of its conversion process. Is this documented? I can't readily find it in help.

I would have thought that this is the case. So you ask Mathcad to convert the worksheet and it runs the 'scripted component' while it is converting!!! Seems a little strange and is poor behavior IMO. The data being written to these files might be dependant on user input variables and therefore another case where Prime cannot be used.

I think it's slighly worse than that, Mike. There are differences between the earlier version and M13+ that could affect the actual calculations. In this case, it might be better to use any stored results or display a 'cannot display result' response.

The other, perhaps equally significant, point is that it could overwrite existing data files.

Stuart

[MikeArmstrong]

The other, perhaps equally significant, point is that it could overwrite existing data files.

Have you checked if that is the case?

I'll have an experiment with some of the writeExcel functions I have later. If Prime cannot handle scripted components, surly an error message should be produced, not just execute the function before converting the worksheet.

Mike

[RichardJ]

when you do the conversion MC15 is running the worksheet, not Prime, and it will therefore run scripted components.

Stuart never said anything about scripted components though. It's possible the files are being written using a function such as WRITEPRN.

[MikeArmstrong]

Stuart never said anything about scripted components though. It's possible the files are being written using a function such as WRITEPRN.

Oops, forgot about those functions

Mike

[StuartBruff]

Mike Armstrong wrote:

Stuart never said anything about scripted components though. It's possible the files are being written using a function such as WRITEPRN.

Oops, forgot about those functions

Mike

Richard has it one, Mike. It used WRITEPRN.

According to the conversion comments, Prime doesn't support components at the moment.

One irritating limitation is that I can't pass range definitions to a function, eg vec(0,0.1..1) - works in M11..M15 and is a very useful capability.

Stuart

[MikeArmstrong]

One irritating limitation is that I can't pass range definitions to a function, eg vec(0,0.1..1) - works in M11..M15 and is a very useful capability.

Oh no.... You pushed that function my way and that's all I use to create vectors now.

Not happy it doesn't work.

Mike

[StuartBruff]

Yep, that's definitely one thing that has to change for Prime 2.

After increasing the utility of the range-definition from M11 through M14, it's a little strange to see it so limited within Prime (unless I've missed something that makes it better).

There are a few utility functions that have popped up over the years from various users that I am surprised haven't made their way into mainstream. Another example is a version of the matrix function that will accept a range-definition or vector in the 'size' arguments. subvector is another useful function that should take its place alongside submatrix, and both should allow the user to specify indices relative to the end of the array.

Stuart

[RichardJ]

I am surprised

Really? Honestly? Are you sure?

[RichardJ]

One irritating limitation is that I can't pass range definitions to a function, eg vec(0,0.1..1) - works in M11..M15 and is a very useful capability.

Well, that going to have to be fixed!

[RichardJ]

The other, perhaps equally significant, point is that it could overwrite existing data files.

Yes, and evidently it will do that not only without warning you before it overwrites the existing files, but also without telling you after it has overwritten them! That is very, very bad behavior!

[MikeArmstrong]

Yes, and evidently it will do that not only without warning you before it overwrites the existing files, but also without telling you after it has overwritten them! That is very, very bad behavior!

Not good at all and could cause a lot of issues.

Mike

[StuartBruff]

Another annoying little trait is that I can't have M11 open when doing conversions.

"The conversion cannot be started because a previous version of Mathcad is running. Close the other version before converting the file."

I don't know why not, as M11 and M15 can run in parallel. I also find I have to restart the converter even after I've closed M11, as it still generates the same message and I have to reload the file to be converted.

Stuart

[MikeArmstrong]

I can see somebody else not being very happy with Prime.

Mike

[RichardJ]

I believe the converter calls Mathcad via the automation interface, which would lead to some limitations in that regard. Did you have 11 and 15 open, or only 11?

[StuartBruff]

Richard Jackson wrote:

I believe the converter calls Mathcad via the automation interface, which would lead to some limitations in that regard. Did you have 11 and 15 open, or only 11?

Both, Richard. I normally find that when I double-click on an .mcd worksheet in Explorer that the worksheet opens in whichever version of Mathcad was last active, so I was expecting similar behaviour from the converter. It's rather annoying to have to shut down M11 to get it the converter to work.

Stuart

[RichardJ]

Both, Richard. I normally find that when I double-click on an .mcd worksheet in Explorer that the worksheet opens in whichever version of Mathcad was last active

I see the same behavior.

so I was expecting similar behaviour from the converter. It's rather annoying to have to shut down M11 to get it the converter to work.

Yes, I agree. It would be interesting to know why they decided it couldn't work if an earlier version of Mathcad is running.

[StuartBruff]

The other thing that strikes me as slightly odd is that there isn't an M15 built-in capability to Save As in Prime format.

Stuart

[mzeftel]

Stuart,

You raised a few issues here. Worksheets from earlier versions of Mathcad are converted to Mathcad Prime 1.0. through Mathcad 15 M005 in the background. It shouldn't change your source file, but I don't know what happens with writeprns. Can you post the file here so we can check it? It also shouldn't overwrite any data files, since the source worksheet is being converted to Mathcad Prime. None of the data files are touched.

Scripted components are not part of Mathcad Prime 1.0. They'll be added in a future release.

I'll investigate vec(0,0.1..1), passing a range to a function.

Can you send me an example of "the version of the matrix function that will accept a range-definition or vector in the 'size' arguments. If users make functions, we're not always aware of them.

The reason you can't have Mathcad 11 open at the same time, has to do with registries. Mathcad 15 M005 has to be registered, and for some reason, running an earlier version of Mathcad, changes the registration for Mathcad 15. We can look into this for the next release.

Mona

[StuartBruff]

Mona Zeftel wrote:

Stuart,

You raised a few issues here. Worksheets from earlier versions of Mathcad are converted to Mathcad Prime 1.0. through Mathcad 15 M005 in the background. It shouldn't change your source file, but I don't know what happens with writeprns. Can you post the file here so we can check it? It also shouldn't overwrite any data files, since the source worksheet is being converted to Mathcad Prime. None of the data files are touched.

Scripted components are not part of Mathcad Prime 1.0. They'll be added in a future release.

I'll investigate vec(0,0.1..1), passing a range to a function.

Can you send me an example of "the version of the matrix function that will accept a range-definition or vector in the 'size' arguments. If users make functions, we're not always aware of them.

The reason you can't have Mathcad 11 open at the same time, has to do with registries. Mathcad 15 M005 has to be registered, and for some reason, running an earlier version of Mathcad, changes the registration for Mathcad 15. We can look into this for the next release.

Mona

Hi Mona,

Worksheet attached giving examples of vec, seq and matrix functions (plus a few others either in support or as additional ones I use frequently).

Second file is the one that uses WRITEPRN and appeared to overwrite the existing data files.

Stuart

[StuartBruff]

Stuart Bruff wrote:

Worksheet attached giving examples of vec, seq and matrix functions (plus a few others either in support or as additional ones I use frequently).

Sigh. I attached the wrong sheet - deleted from previous message and newer version attached to this message.

Stuart

[mzeftel]

Hi Stuart,

I see the writeprn issue and will log it.

I'm investigating conversion of the worksheet you posted.

Mona