"Engineer"

Hi Bettina,

Yes, it can be a problem in English-speaking countries - England/Britain in particular!

I don't think anyone will be offended to be called an "engineer", but you are right - it is often used instead of "technician" or even just "operator". There are many people who think that "engineer" should be legally protected, only allowed to be used by Chartered Engineers, but I don't think it's really possible to control this in everyday language.

What annoys engineers is a repair technician being called a "photocopier engineer", or a "washing machine engineer" - or even a rubbish collector being a "sanitation engineer"!

But I think there is no problem calling a true engineer, simply "engineer".

In the 60's it became a joke that a housewife (stay at home mom) returning to work would put "Domestic Engineer" on her resume. Though I have sympathy for the term, "Engineer" has become a much over used term. Anybody that works in any technical capacity is called an engineer:

• Contract manager: Project Engineer
• Technical sales: Applications engineer
• CAD operator: Design Engineer

The ASME states that only degreed engineers should have the title "Engineer." In some states, Michigan included, it is not lawful to call a company an Engineering Company unless a certain percentage of the company principals are licensed engineers.

Apple has taken another tack. All of their technicians are geniuses. Maybe we should compound the oxymoron and call them all geniuses to deflate that title and make the engineering title a little more exclusive.

Bob

I've seen people with PE on their business card meaining they are Project Engineer's. May not even be a "real" engineer. If someone claims to be an engineer, I don't hesiate from talking in engineering terms. You can spot the fakes. Their eyes glaze over.

Bob

Hey

I am a Belgian and have tried to become a industrial engineer at school. I did not succeed. After 30 years on the floor as a technician I became designer, first with Inventor, then with Pro-Engineer. I do not call myself an ingeneer but a mechanical designer. Maybe i am not enough theoretical but practical I seem to do well even in English and French better than some colleges who are ingeneer of diplome. I mean it is not what you have of scholing, its what you know.

And a title, you can have it if you want, I dont need it if I earn my money in a proper way.

Chris

Hey there

I did not need an apology. Like I said I do not call myself an Engineer. But it was kind of you all.I will say it again: a title you can take or get, without knowing anything. The only proof is your work, whitch allows you to call yourself someone. I want be the one who juges that, I am not clever are good enough to do such a things. If you think you can, you have to do so.

With me, an engineer of my work took the same lessons of Pro E. He did not design anything in 6 months. I suspect he does not know anymore how to do it. That I find is much worse than calling yourself engineer without knowing a thing about technics.

Chris

Bettina,

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments, and I find it very disconcerting.

I see the term "engineer" as being a description of a profession. For a parallel, you may consider the word "doctor."

In the USA, we do not have a strong governing structure controlling who is permitted to refer to themself as an "engineer." We DO have strong structures about other professions such as "doctors."

As a result, pretty much anyone can claim to be "an engineer." I do not consider such claims on their parts to be valid, but there is no "rule" preventing such usage of the term.

There are people who consider this to be a matter of "social status." Some very smart, very experienced people claim to be "engineers" but do not meet the requirements which many of us believe are "minimum" for the use of the word. To me, an "engineer" must, at a minimum, have a full education as an engineer from a fully acredited institution, and must have a number of years of experience under the direct supervision of a fully qualified engineer. I am open to the use of terms like "engineer in training" or "associate engineer" to describe the positions held by these as-yet-inexperienced persons.

There are more extreme perspectives... those who believe that without a "Professional Engineer licence" you should not be permitted to call yourself an engineer. I do not object to that, but I don't feel that this is really useful or necessary.

Please note... the term "engineer" is not a term of praise, and refusing to call someone an "engineer" is not a way of belittling them. It is simply a way of providing information about the training and experience level of the person.

Using the "medical doctor" analogy, for instance, you have to have attended a medical school, and you need to pass certain exams. These only say that you've been taught the minimum required to call yourself a "doctor." It says nothing at all about whether or not you are a GOOD doctor, or perhaps a very BAD doctor. Only that you can legitimately call yourself a "doctor."

It is entirely possible for a person who has never attended medical school, or taken any medical certification board examination, to know more than a fully qualified doctor about some health issues. It is entirely possible for a "board certified" doctor to be totally incompetent. The use of the term "doctor" is not a term of PRAISE, it is a way of conveying information, nothing more.

Unfortunately, since we have no firm definitions of the term "engineer" here, you will find some people who describe themselves as such while they lack the minimum requirements to legitimately refer to themselves as an engineer. This represents both a lack of respect for the term, and a lack of understanding for what it means. It ceases to be a way of conveying information about a specific set of qualifications and simply becomes a form of "self-praise."

In answer to your question about "giving offense," I would not be concerned. ALL "real engineers" must have, at a bare minimum, a full grounding in mathematics, in chemistry, in materials science, in physics, in electromagnetism... and in project managment and other "non-technical" disciplines as well. These are the BARE MINIMUM. We all share these in common.

Beyond that, we have areas of specialization. A software engineer need not be an expert in material science, and a structural engineer need not be an expert in non-linear methods of software optimization. But we all need to share a common foundation of knowledge.

SO... if someone calls me an "engineer" they are not offending me. They are providing accurate, meaningful information about me. They could further refine their definition, but that should only be relevant or necessary if the "refinement" actually matters in the context of the current conversation.

Finally... my title is "Senior Mechanical Design Engineer." I am completely happy with this definition, as it defines my position (the senior mechanical engineer in the company) and makes it clear that I do not do "only" design work, or "only" analytical work, but do the full gamut of the engineering workload (from conceptualization, to creating full working models, assemblies, and drawings, to performing all variety of analysis, to performing project management functions). I've earned this position... I certainly would never have "self-promoted" myself to this role until I had the level of experience and knowledge I have today.

I hope this answer is helpful to you.

Got a little story for you all that goes along with the original post. When I was in the 4th grade, my math teacher ask us a question that was a little over our heads. I stuck my hand up and she called on me to answer. I actually answered the question well, but not completely. She said, "Wow, that's a good answer. You should be an engineer." I thought to myself, "I don't want to drive trains!" I wasn't until high school that I was applying for college and I remembered that and realized, "Oh yeah, I do want to be an engineer." Turns out I did become an engineer, a mechanical engineer that is.

Ok, so this doesn't go exactly with what you originally posted but