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AM_92433471-Visitor
1-Visitor
January 15, 2022
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create drawing needs saving 3d model

  • January 15, 2022
  • 3 replies
  • 3079 views

Hi all;

In our company we have set a policy to release 3d model before starting to create drawing and therefore system not allow the user to save 3d model in this phase . 

Our problem is that to create sections in 2d it  creates the section in 3d model also which results to modification of 3d model and therefore it needs being saved ...

My question is that how do you manage this situation? Is there any other alternatives to it?

Please share your experience in this regard.

 

I really appreciate your help.

Sincerely yours.

Best answer by sacquarone

Hello @AM_9243347 

 

Creation of a section in Drawing environment as per steps documented in above Help Center will actually produce a 3D section, and will be therefore created in the 3D Model (visible in 3D Model's Model Tree):

  • This is documented in Help Center URL mentioning as a note "You can only display existing 3D cross sections in drawings. You cannot create a new 3D cross section in a drawing."
  • This is expected and cannot be avoided for the following reason:
    • The section, even though created in drawing environment, takes reference in the 3D Model (the plane or surfacae) => Visible in >Information >Reference Viewer
    • The parametric link to 3D Geometry is therefiore required to guarantee expected update if geomtry changes later in the 3D Model (as a general rule, without speaking about "released" state)

 

That said, even though this is technically possible to produce a section draft view (in drawing) completely decorrelated from the drawing model (illustrated in move attached, as an answer to your question), this is nevertheless not recommended from a functional standpoint.

 

To answer first your question from a technical standpoint, I registered a little movie to show you how this can be achieved (if you want to definitely keep your current methodology).

 

Consider however that from a functional standpoint, the "cross section use case described here" is only the visible part of a much bigger iceberg behind the scene. When building drawings, you need very often to modify the part or assembly used as "Drawing Model" (need of a new simp rep? Need to change & save Layer Display at 3D Mode level? Need of a new datum? Need to "freeze" a componant failing plaement due to placement reference lost? etc ...). Also, please observe that when just creating simple dimensions in the drawing (not "showing", but "creating") will ALSO modify (per default) the drawing model. For this, a solution exists to avoid it by using create_drawing_dims_only to yes in config.pro (value no being the defualt setting, because usage of "yes" generates many limitations afterwards ... long to develop here).

 

So, due to above considerations, the question now is: How can I STOP TO ALLOW modifications in Drawing Models for my 3D Designers, but STILL ALLOW to do minor changes (required when building drawings) for my Drawing Creators?

=> For this, you may consider an additonal LifeCycle state, you may call "pre-released" (just before "Released")

=> And then configure ACLs for this intermediate LC State specific to CAD Document Type to:

  1. Grant read access ONLY for 3D Designers
  2. But grant Read AND Modify access for the Drawing Creators

 

Not sure if above approach will allow you driving everything from PLM perspective (maybe, you really need the Drawing Models being "Released" - without intermediate LifeCycle state - before building your drawings). If so, I have no other approach than the one shown in atached movie (for the sections), but with limitations from an higher pespective (for the other use cases previously considered in this post).

 

Regards,

 

Serge

3 replies

P
19-Tanzanite
pausob19-Tanzanite
19-Tanzanite
January 16, 2022

Have you tried to make the cross-section in the drawing?

See To Create a 2D Cross Section in a Drawing page in the help index.

I don't know if that above procedure still modifies the 3D model.

 

 

 

S
sacquarone21-Topaz IAnswer
21-Topaz I
January 17, 2022

Hello @AM_9243347 

 

Creation of a section in Drawing environment as per steps documented in above Help Center will actually produce a 3D section, and will be therefore created in the 3D Model (visible in 3D Model's Model Tree):

  • This is documented in Help Center URL mentioning as a note "You can only display existing 3D cross sections in drawings. You cannot create a new 3D cross section in a drawing."
  • This is expected and cannot be avoided for the following reason:
    • The section, even though created in drawing environment, takes reference in the 3D Model (the plane or surfacae) => Visible in >Information >Reference Viewer
    • The parametric link to 3D Geometry is therefiore required to guarantee expected update if geomtry changes later in the 3D Model (as a general rule, without speaking about "released" state)

 

That said, even though this is technically possible to produce a section draft view (in drawing) completely decorrelated from the drawing model (illustrated in move attached, as an answer to your question), this is nevertheless not recommended from a functional standpoint.

 

To answer first your question from a technical standpoint, I registered a little movie to show you how this can be achieved (if you want to definitely keep your current methodology).

 

Consider however that from a functional standpoint, the "cross section use case described here" is only the visible part of a much bigger iceberg behind the scene. When building drawings, you need very often to modify the part or assembly used as "Drawing Model" (need of a new simp rep? Need to change & save Layer Display at 3D Mode level? Need of a new datum? Need to "freeze" a componant failing plaement due to placement reference lost? etc ...). Also, please observe that when just creating simple dimensions in the drawing (not "showing", but "creating") will ALSO modify (per default) the drawing model. For this, a solution exists to avoid it by using create_drawing_dims_only to yes in config.pro (value no being the defualt setting, because usage of "yes" generates many limitations afterwards ... long to develop here).

 

So, due to above considerations, the question now is: How can I STOP TO ALLOW modifications in Drawing Models for my 3D Designers, but STILL ALLOW to do minor changes (required when building drawings) for my Drawing Creators?

=> For this, you may consider an additonal LifeCycle state, you may call "pre-released" (just before "Released")

=> And then configure ACLs for this intermediate LC State specific to CAD Document Type to:

  1. Grant read access ONLY for 3D Designers
  2. But grant Read AND Modify access for the Drawing Creators

 

Not sure if above approach will allow you driving everything from PLM perspective (maybe, you really need the Drawing Models being "Released" - without intermediate LifeCycle state - before building your drawings). If so, I have no other approach than the one shown in atached movie (for the sections), but with limitations from an higher pespective (for the other use cases previously considered in this post).

 

Regards,

 

Serge

    P
    19-Tanzanite
    pausob19-Tanzanite
    19-Tanzanite
    January 17, 2022

    Hi @sacquarone , I am not the original poster.

    Nevertheless, I submit the help documentation is not totally clear - I thought 3D section was the "zone" type or offset type...  your video makes it clear that 2D sections can be created in the drawing, but system will still make a 3D section in the model.

     

    The policy of the company where original poster is employed seems rather restrictive, to be sure.  Models and drawings go hand in hand, so why freeze one before the other?  Anyway, I'm not sure your  proposed workflow would solve their issues - after all, how do you trust the drawing creators to not "disturb" the model?"

    Isn't that why there is typically a doc approval stage where the designer has to check the finalized checked-in model?

     

     

     

    T
    23-Emerald IV
    TomU23-Emerald IV
    23-Emerald IV
    January 18, 2022

    I use to work in a company that did something similar.  One group of people did the 3D designs and another group did the 2D detailing.  The people creating the 2D drawings did not have the rights to check out and modify any of the 3D design files (.prt or .asm).  If something was missing in 3D, it was the responsibility of the designers to go back and add it for the detailers.

     

    Seems like you need a process to make sure the 3D designers are adding everything necessary for future detailing.  Maybe a better checklist???

      S
      23-Emerald III
      StephenW23-Emerald III
      23-Emerald III
      January 18, 2022

      If this is the process you are going to use, you will have to add in to your process of sending the model back to the designer to "correct" the model deficiencies as identified by the detailer.  Creo really doesn't work the way you are trying to use it so you have to make your process work within those constraints.

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