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jnelson14-Alexandrite
14-Alexandrite
March 1, 2010
Question

Sketcher Intent Manager

  • March 1, 2010
  • 55 replies
  • 15381 views

During a recent PTC/USER Technical Committee meeting we had a discussion about the Sketcher Intent Manager.

This discussion made me curious as to if there are still users that find the need to turn off the Intent Manager, which is why I am writing.

If there is anyone that still turns off the Sketcher Intent Manager, can you please respond to the questions below?

1. What are the circumstances that causes you to turn off the Intent Manager?

2. If you are importing data, is this done as a "normal" sketch with the intent to drive geometry with that sketch, or as a cosmetic sketch where you are probably not looking to drive geometry?

Please note that the reason of "Because it is annoying", is NOT specific enough.

In order to present the need for this, I need specific use cases (models and/or written) in which users turn off intent manager and still want to do something non-cosmetic with the resulting sketch.

Thanks....

Joel Nelson

PTC/USER Sheetmetal TC Chair


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55 replies

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PAULKORENKIEWIC1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
Ditto... intent manager is fine, BUT don't REMOVE functionality!!!
Pretty much ever... 😉

Thanks...

Paul Korenkiewicz
FEV, Inc.
4554 Glenmeade
Auburn Hills, MI., 48326

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nuheht1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010

Because it IS annoying. I never liked it, I still don't but am forced to use it at my current position. 99% of the time it does not know my intent and I have to remove constraints and add constraints, while with it off, I only had to add the constraints of my intention.



Joe Ordo




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kwsauter1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
I for one am glad to have IM. When I try to use the old sketcher, it
never lets me do what I want, and I end spending more time fighting the
blasted thing than designing anything. It still makes assumptions, and
always the assumptions I don't want. Only if I make dead simple
sketches does it work for me. Anything with more than dead simple
geometry turns making a sketch into a raging battle with Proe. In IM,
right click disables any assumption that shows up, and like someone else
said, you can go into sketcher preferences and disable assumptions. IM
is one of the best ideas PTC has had in a long time.


Ken Sauter
DRS Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition
Infrared Technologies Division
PO Box 740188
Dallas, TX 75374
214-860-6826
- <">mailto:->
L
lylebeidler1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
Ditto. Not that this answers Joel's original question, but many of the
objections to IM can be laid at the feet of either "old dogs" not wanting to
learn new tricks, or lack of education in the upgrade process. I personally
have coached several longtime users who were dead set against IM, but when I
showed them how to set their references & how quick it can be, they came
around. A bit of education goes a long way.



--



Lyle Beidler
MGS Inc
178 Muddy Creek Church Rd
Denver PA 17517
717-336-7528
Fax 717-336-0514
<">mailto:-> -
<">http://www.mgsincorporated.com>
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dgschaefer21-Topaz II
21-Topaz II
March 2, 2010
+1

I'm curious when folks say they simply added the constraints the
actually want without IM. How? Pre-IM it was sketch it and hit regen
and hope Pro|E guess what you intended to do. There was/is no way to
add in a constraint directly that I recall.

Doug Schaefer
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kwsauter1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
If there was, I never found it. It just assumed and it wouldn't tell me
what it assumed, it just assumed it knew more about what I wanted than I
did. Now THAT was annoying!


Ken Sauter
DRS Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition
Infrared Technologies Division
PO Box 740188
Dallas, TX 75374
214-860-6826
- <">mailto:->
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wattsteam1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010

Ken - WRT your statement


" When I try to use the old sketcher, it never lets me do what I want, and I end spending more time fighting the blasted thing than designing anything. It still makes assumptions, and always the assumptions I don't want."



This is exactly my feeling about IM. If two people have exactly opposite feelings about a given feature, they were either trained differently or are doing different things with it. I learned the original sketcher and probably sketch largely by instinct and experience, so I rarely have a sketch fail without IM. With IM it is a constant fight for me. I will however definitely try and gain experience with the various IM techniques and tricks others have mentioned - thanks to all for those. I truly would like to be able to learn to use it better.



Does anyone have a list of the benefits of IM? I have lost the release notes from way back when that denote the pluses.



+1 for the argument never to disable features!



Jeff Dayman (definitely an old dog, but a productive old dog)

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pauldelong1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
My 2 cents.



First, a little background on my ProE experience. I started using ProE on
rev 4. I worked for PTC as a Senior Applications Engineer and have taught a
ton of ProE classes from basic to all sorts of advanced topics.



Sure, when IM first came out, I found it difficult to use. mainly because it
was lacking functionality and robustness. however, these days I find IM to
be a very powerful, easy to use tool. That said, I see users everywhere
that struggle with it, and from what I can tell, they never really learned a
logical, tried and true, systematic approach on how to use it. after all,
isn't it difficult to work with something you don't really understand? The
first time I attempted to do so plumbing around my house, I struggled and
struggled. it wasn't until I really learned and understood how a plumbing
system works, the various types of plumbing components and tools, and how
they're designed to interact, etc that doing plumbing around the house
became easy, quick and kinda fun!



Let's face it. typical Instructor led training is a wonderful, cost
effective way for a group of users to learn the concepts but to really learn
how to apply the concepts, techniques and methods, you need to apply the
them with users on a day to day basis until they've reached and can
demonstrate a proficiency threshold - you'll know when they have reached
this level with Sketcher and IM because the frustration level will drop
substantially. isn't this the goal of 'training' anyway?



To that end I suggest Sketcher and IM as frequent topics for your user group
meetings etc. or if you'd like, I can conduct tailored workshops with your
users and provide them with the mentoring they so badly need and deserve.



Regardless, having used other CAD applications, I have yet to see a Sketcher
tool come close to PTC's - keep it up, PTC!



Paul


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kwsauter1-Visitor
1-Visitor
March 2, 2010
A couple of things: I was never able to put rounded corners on a sketch
in the Old Sketcher (OS). I was forced to add rounds later. OS would
never show me any constraints, like IM. It just assumed. I remember
one day when I was bound and determined to make OS do what I wanted. I
was trying to sketch a rectangle with a very simple squarish ear on each
corner. I wanted to make the whole thing in one feature; no separate
features added later. I spent seven or eight hours fighting that
@#%#$%#%$# thing to try to get my relatively simple shape. I could get
two ears one size and two ears another, or three ears one size and one
another size, or all four ears different sizes, but I could never get
all four ears the same size, no matter how hard or what I tried. I
finally gave up. Proe won that battle. When your software prevents you
from designing what you want, there is something very definitely wrong
with your software. At least that's my opinion. I dread being thrown
into OS when a feature fails for some reason. At least let me add
constraints in the old sketcher. I hate trying to second guess the
software and hoping it works out.

If you're using the old sketcher, you must:
1. make simple sketches
2. follow a philosophy of creating more, simple features rather than a
few complex features.
3. Intuitively understand the assumptions OS makes (I never did).
4. Have a high tolerance for OS deciding things for you.

My company is paying me to design things, and paying for Proe to do what
I want it to do--not the other way around. Software that tries to tell
me how to design things gets me PO'd--bad. It should either do what I
tell it to or just let me know it can't do it. Being forced to
positively fight the software to get what I want is not something I want
to pay for. I bought a seat of SW for myself partly as a result of
those battles. After two years on SW and going back to Proe, the old
battles rise up in my face again, even with IM.

I normally have very good blood pressure, but I remember one day I went
to the doctor after a particularly harrowing battle with Proe, and my
blood pressure was 153 over 94. Even with IM I have those battles
sometimes, but I will never, ever go back to the old sketcher.



Ken Sauter
DRS Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition
Infrared Technologies Division
PO Box 740188
Dallas, TX 75374
214-860-6826
- <">mailto:->
D
dgschaefer21-Topaz II
21-Topaz II
March 2, 2010
Before IM, I had to sketch the approximate shape and hit regen. Pro|E
would apply the constraints it thought I wanted. If I was a good
sketcher, it would guess exactly what I had hoped it would. If not,
well I had to delete or unregen or something, I can't remember

With IM I am in complete control over my sketch intent. I simply sketch
the right number and type of entities. It doesn't really even need to
be close. pro|E will slap some constraints on the sketch, but I don't
care what they are because I can pick them and delete them, even apply
specific constraints that I want. If I want two lines parallel, I just
tell Pro|E to make them parallel. Even if they aren't close to
parallel. If I want two segments equal, I don't have to draw them equal
so Pro|E will guess that they are, I just tell it that they are. Even
if one is 3x as long as the other, they become equal.

I never had that kind of control before IM.

IM also shows you what Pro|E is assuming in real time instead of
sketching a shape and hitting regen to see what Pro|E will decide. As
has been said, I can RMB as I sketch to disable constraints as I sketch.
Even if the assumptions are all wrong, I can delete them and apply my
own.

I can see how it might feel like you're fighting IM as you sketch and it
makes assumptions, I've felt that at times too. I've learned that I
need to sketch an exaggerated, inaccurate sketch first. Get the right
number of entities in there, then go to the constraints dialog and apply
the ones I want, deleting those that I don't. I can quickly get what I
want that way.


Doug Schaefer
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