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Robert-Altman10-Marble
10-Marble
September 29, 2011
Question

Oracle or SQL

  • September 29, 2011
  • 13 replies
  • 4133 views
Are there in Pros or Cons regarding using Oracle or SQL Database for a
Windchill installation?



In the past I have only used Oracle, members of the IT department here
are more familiar with SQL and would feel more comfortable with it.



Thanks in advance,




13 replies

A
achukwuka1-Visitor
1-Visitor
September 29, 2011
Robert,

As you well know Oracle is the gold standard when it comes to databases. Although the licensing costs and maintenance are expensive. However, SQL also works for Windchill. I myself, am more familiar with Oracle backend for persistent data storage in windchill. SQL provides a low cost alternative to Oracle. Since your IT dept is more familiar with SQL, maybe that's the one you go with and to avoid the training cost to get them ramp up with oracle.

Thanks

Alexius C. Chukwuka
IT Analyst, Global SAP Basis
Technical Change Management (TCM)
Deere & Company World Headquarters
400 19th St, Moline, IL 61265
S
SteveVinyard1-Visitor
1-Visitor
September 29, 2011
Here is a good Exploder note from Matt about this (see below). I agree with everything that was said here. SQL is the new thing, unfortunately its not NEARLY as well supported by PTC as Oracle is. I don't mean that it doesn't run well and it may very well be faster but having explicit directions for high level tuning, Tech Support and a general understanding at times are lacking with SQL and PTC. For instance, if you need a database update script (for some strange issue) tech support will 100% of the time send you an Oracle SQL script. If you need it done for MS SQL tech support will usually have to get one from R&D...or you can do it yourself. Both take more time and effort. In regards to tuning and maintenance, PTC has very little (to my knowledge) in regards to documentation and best practices with MS SQL. Even in regards to general index maintenance etc.

The good news is that its always getting better as everyone moves to SQL. Personally I would be fine with it if your implementation isn't massive/complex and you have some good SQL guys that are will to help out from time to time and already have a good knowledge of how to tune and maintain a complex database on their own.


There is a mass migration from Oracle to MS SQL in the Windchill community today and much of it is caused by Oracle's unrealistic licensing requirements for virtual servers. Out of 10 recent (SMB) Windchill 10.0 migrations/new deployments, only one chose to stay with Oracle.

Not all of these deployments are complete but the ones that are don't have any issues running SQL Server. PTC did a lot of work with Microsoft and Windchill 10.0 reportedly runs faster on MS SQL than on Oracle. Also, SQL Server is easier to manage and maintain than Oracle. They are equivalent with respect to hardware resources (Windows servers).

PTC is really slow to release the Oracle to MS SQL Server migration tool for Windchill 10.0 (Oracle 11g R2 to SQL Server 2008 R2). It was tentatively planned for release in June, then August, now October and we still haven't seen the tool. So if you have an older Windchill system (e.g. 9.1) today, you should plan to move from Oracle to MS SQL before you upgrade to 10.0. Switching databases during the upgrade process is not supported. If you have a Pro/INTRALINK 3.x system you have to move to Windchill with Oracle and then switch databases after the migration.

Moving from SQL Server to Oracle is not supported by PTC. Oracle has a database conversion tool similar to Microsoft but PTC has not attempted the database conversion in that direction. If you are interested in moving from SQL Server to Oracle let PTC know. They won't look into this process until there is significant interest from the customer base.

Kind Regards,

Matt Meadows

Solutions Architect
VIRSO Inc
A
achukwuka1-Visitor
1-Visitor
September 29, 2011
Steve has made some excellent points here. Particularly that PTC is not heavy on SQL support as they are on oracle. When PTC sends you a SQL script, 99.99% of the time, it is an oracle sql script.

Just some more things to consider.

Alexius C. Chukwuka
IT Analyst, Global SAP Basis
Technical Change Management (TCM)
Deere & Company World Headquarters
400 19th St, Moline, IL 61265
R
Robert-Altman10-MarbleAuthor
10-Marble
December 14, 2011
I'm not familiar with the initial cost/maintenance of Oracle or SQL.



I keep hearing that Oracle is expensive but I don't know what that
really is? Does anyone have some numbers for comparison?



Regards,



Robert



Arthrex, Inc.

Manager, Engineering CAD & Tech Support


S
sbugros6-Contributor
6-Contributor
December 14, 2011
Robert,



Last year I bought Oracle Database Standard Edition One Processor
License for $2413.85 per processor and $531.05 for one year support per
processor. This is also GSA pricing.



We have two processors in our server. Total price was $5889.80.





Steve






P
patrick.chin11-Visitor
1-Visitor
December 14, 2011

As a tangent,


For Windchill:



  • Since all support of database is really coming from PTC and not Oracle or Microsoft

    • you usually have to hire a DBA who is familiar with bothWindchill and Oracle/SQL Server which usually meansPTC Windchill experienced


  • costof bothapplication and database licensingFOR both SERVER and USER ($100'sk to $MIL/year) always limits your scope of the solution

  • Performance is an issue

  • Running on Linux is not an issue

  • the need toown the entire suite of Windchill modules is best to start off with rather than customizing and creating workarounds which is difficult to move forward (i.e subtype of partsversus Partslink and supplier management)

I would really push PTC to support PostgreSQL which would have better performance than both Oracle and MS SQL Server:


You will have tons of money to spend on more PTC modules with great performance.


It's time to have PTCput time to develop this alternative.

P
patrick.chin11-Visitor
1-Visitor
December 22, 2011

Another Question,


If you have migrated to SQL Server, do you keep you Windchill on a linux/unix platform or is your application servers also become Windows? Or is the assumption your Windchill and Oracle is already on Windows?


Who has migrated when there original OS's where Unix/Linux?


Did you keep your Windchill on Unix/Linux and move your database from Unix/Linux to Windows?


In comparisons between platforms:


How often was your downtimes, performance, etc affected by?



  • OS patches

  • memory issues

  • viruses

  • viruses checkers

  • increasing your volume groups in your SAN appliance that is recoverable if fails with OS specific tools.


http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/technology-price-list-070617.pdf


The SQL server cost matrix used to be online but I can't find it anymore. Too bad PTC doesn't support Postgre SQL, man that's open source and you just need to pay for a company like Red Hat for supported maintenance.


Have a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Holidays!

P
patrick.chin11-Visitor
1-Visitor
December 23, 2011

Just a FYI,


You might experience this error/failures when trying to load data into SQL Server 2005/2008:



  • that takes longer than a day (i.e. migration from Oracle to SQL Server

  • or just trying to load data just at the point of a date change (implementations that is 24/7)

http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic585161-148-1.aspx


Lots of fun,


Have a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Holidays and just be safe,


Patrick

P
patrickchin20001-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 13, 2013

SQL server has major issues with Windchill system that has more than 1 methodserver including background method server. SQL Serverhas majortransaction issues when there are multiple sessions (method servers withimbedded tomcat 10.X) accessing the same record/table.SQL Server standardfunctional limitation is to lock it to first come first served. Thus, all other sessions get backed up or frozen. I really hope in the future for customers sake that PTC supports Postgre SQL databases. It is free and can be completely supported by PTC itself. Instead of dealing with a mamoth company to change it's behavior like Microsoft, PTC can help improve the open source database.


I wish everyone good luck and happy holidays,

P
patrickchin20001-Visitor
1-Visitor
December 20, 2013

Did Oracle just change Oracle Standard Edition? It now has everything with DBA studio and database management. The cost is now only less that 10% of Oracle Enterprise Edition and cheaper than SQL Server. I only need 4 CPU sockets every especially if each socket is hex or octo core.


https://shop.oracle.com/pls/ostore/f?p=dstore:product:0::NO:RP,6:P6_LPI,P6_PROD_HIER_ID:4508925239811805719874,4509958287721805720011


Even PTC technical support is now advising me to go to Oracle. Why did PTC sell to customers that Microsoft SQL server to be supported with Windchill when there is so much issues.

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