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Sam813-Aquamarine
13-Aquamarine
June 6, 2019
Question

Is a Creo subscription a waste of money?

  • June 6, 2019
  • 6 replies
  • 7638 views

I've just dished aout another couple of grand to PTC for my Creo subscription and installed Creo 6, but am not quite sure what I am paying for. Yes, the live FEA looks great, the addative manufacturing tools might be useful, but I can't afford another kidney to pay for those modules.

 

What is new with the standard package, apart from a bit of menu polishing and a new right-click toolbar? The extra 5% on the subscription cost didn't go unnoticed either. I don't even get the rendering module without relinquishing the slightly less rip-off deal that I signed up for with my subscription license.

 

What about sorting out all the half-baked functionality? Why is the menu manager still there?

 

Are PTC trying to make me move to a competitor?

 

Sam

6 replies

S
23-Emerald III
StephenW23-Emerald III
23-Emerald III
June 6, 2019

Well, that would be an opinion. I would consider it a valid opinion.

Prior to subscriptions, the "maintenance" was basically optional. You could just not renew and still use the software. PTC would attempt to "punish" entities who didn't continue on maintenance with higher reinstatement costs but it was common knowledge that those were negotiable. I always figured that PTC considered it a failure on their part to not keep a customer on maintenance, LOST REVENUE.

With the prevalence of software subscriptions these days (not just PTC), software companies are attempting to regain that lost revenue stream by simply leasing the software to you for a time. Once you've developed a mess of data, you will be hard pressed to stop paying.

I'm not sure if the subscription model is here to stay or if it is passing fad or ???

I believe it will entice customers to "re-evaluate" yearly which may be bad for continued subscription revenue.

 

These are all just my opinions and do not represent my company in any way, shape, or form.

S
Sam813-AquamarineAuthor
13-Aquamarine
June 6, 2019

Stephen, thanks for bringing some much-needed objectivity into my argument.

 

I'm more than happy to pay for a service, but it appears that there is almost an active business model within PTC to only offer improvements where they can get more money from customers, and doing as little as possible everywhere else.

 

It's a real shame, as Pro/Engineer/Creo has some great cabilities in there  somewhere, but it is rapidly falling behind in terms of value for money.

 

 

S
23-Emerald III
StephenW23-Emerald III
23-Emerald III
June 6, 2019

I have a hard time disagreeing with anything that you have said.

    B
    23-Emerald III
    BenLoosli23-Emerald III
    23-Emerald III
    June 6, 2019

    I am not a fan of subscriptions, yet, and maybe never will be!

    We looked at converting from maintenance to subscription licenses his year. The cost of maintenance was 2/3 the cost for a subscription with the same functionality. Actually the subscription had more functionality, but those 'extra' modules are not ones we use anyway. The only plus to a subscription is you get more functionality in the bundles than the last round of purchased bundles.

    With subscriptions, your IP is locked into Creo if you let the subscription lapse. By owning licenses, you can always retrieve your data, even if off maintenance.

     

    Despite PTC wanting to eliminate the Menu Manager in Wildfire, there are still some functions that the programmers have not figured out how to put into the WIMP interface of Office. that makes 11 releases of Wildfire and Creo since PTC announced their intention and still failing to deliver!

     

      P
      pimm15-Moonstone
      15-Moonstone
      June 6, 2019

      I certainly am not a fan of the subscription payment either.  Unfortunately some one higher up decided to update all of our seats to subscription.

       

      There are a couple conditions which leave you in a potentially disastrous condition.

      1) If our small company can't afford maintenance there is no way to keep working.

      2) If PTC ever goes belly up what will happen with those holding the no longer valid subscription seats?

       

      If you slice it up for what you get and what you lose we don't end up any better. 

        B
        23-Emerald III
        BenLoosli23-Emerald III
        23-Emerald III
        June 6, 2019

        We have 2 Creo license servers. When we discussed switching, I told management that we needed to keep 2 licenses on maintenance so we would also have access to the IP we have created, even if we freeze at some release of Creo in the future.

        We did end up buying 4 additional seats of Creo for a contract job, 3 Advanced Design and 1 Advanced Design Plus subscription bundles.

         

        Since I use a network load of Creo, all licenses use the same install location, I just have different batch files for launching the owned versus subscription licenses. I do have all 3 shortcuts on my desk, but no one else does or knows that I do.

          S
          Sam813-AquamarineAuthor
          13-Aquamarine
          June 6, 2019

          BenLoosli and pimm raise some very good points.

           

          We are a very small company with a single seat of Creo and made the move to subscription a few years ago; we had let the maintenance lapse as it was very poor value for money and there was an offer on subscription that was a similar annual cost without the capital outlay.

           

          We still have a Creo 2 perpetual license, but that is not much use for any new intellectual property.

           

          Despite the serious risks with subscription as presented above, I could accept them more readily if I thought I was getting something for my money. I'm not naive to corporate realities but instead, I am left with a feeling that PTC is only interested in the bottom line, and not in advancing design and engineering software, or serving existing customers.

           

          Excuse the nostalgia while I wipe the tear from my eye, but I can't help feeling its a bit of a shame. I bought a student licence of 2000i with so much anticipation as to what I could engineer, and now can't help feeling a wee bit cold. Complaining aside, is there anything we can do as customers? I've got mountains of PTC data and years of blood sweat and tears,so mutiny is not that easy. But perhaps there is another option to make PTC listen..?

           

          S
          23-Emerald III
          StephenW23-Emerald III
          23-Emerald III
          June 7, 2019

          The only way you will get PTC to listen is to buy a LOT of licenses.

          And besides, just like years ago, when PTC bought Windchill, all development and maintenance went to that line...PTC just bought Vuforia (a couple years ago), I'm pretty sure all money will flow towards IoT development.

          To be honest, CAD isn't a growth market. There really aren't going to be tons of new customers. It could be, if they invented the next big thing, but...

          Iot is a growth market. Makes sense for a Corp to invest heavily, unfortunately to the detriment of Creo.

           

          Again, this is my personal opinion and not those of my company

          B
          23-Emerald III
          BenLoosli23-Emerald III
          23-Emerald III
          June 7, 2019

          Even owning a lot of licenses it takes a lot to get PTC to listen!

          A prior company owned over 700 seats of Wildfire (at the time) and about twice that number of Windchill seats. We were using very few of the Windchill seats as most sites were still utilizing Intralink 3.3. In those days PDMLink did not exist and Windchill really was one big toolbox of things that COULD be done. Along comes Windchill 7 and PDMLink! Lo and behold, it can actually do something OOTB, well almost. My division of large PTC customer decided to do an implementation of Windchill using Global Services quick start program. Get PDMLink up and running in 6 weeks, what a joke, it is 9 months! Along the way we discovered that PDMLink didn't do certain things we felt were needed. Customized code speced out, written and tested...and an additional bill from PTC for the modification. We had 12 of these mods needed before going live. PTC put 8 of them as standard in Windchill 8! Along about month 6 of the implementation, we decide we needed another change. Request submitted, PTC speced out the scope and submitted the change notice and cost. Being so late in going live, multiple cost increases, etc. management said enough! CIO, Corporate Engineering Windchill leader, local project manager all go to Needham and have a meeting with Jim Heppleman. End result was no more price increases or charges for changes. 

           

          It sometimes takes more than just a large customer, it takes a show of force and a bat to get PTC's attention!

            S
            Sam813-AquamarineAuthor
            13-Aquamarine
            June 19, 2019

            I've given Creo 6 a bit of time now, to try and see what I'm paying for, and really can't be sure.

             

            When I'm asked what CAD software to buy, my answer is to consider all the options, but whatever you do, don't buy Creo. The sad reality of a decent application driven to the ground by management arrogance.

              S
              23-Emerald III
              StephenW23-Emerald III
              23-Emerald III
              June 20, 2019

              It's been years since I was anywhere near the software purchasing side of things, so I'm not current.

              If I was opening my own business and it was just me using CAD, I would buy and use Creo simply because it is what I know and I can be productive immediately.

              If i was buying for other users, I would really have evaluate my options. I wouldn't rule out Creo because I know that some of the other CAD vendors are going to the subscription method also. I also know that if I hire someone who doesn't know Creo, I would have to teach them how to use it and they wouldn't be productive for a significant amount of time.

              R
              rohit_rajan15-Moonstone
              15-Moonstone
              July 9, 2019

              May be its time to look at the elder brother's or sisters (Catia and NX)?

              I think PTC has reached its last stop with any major development with PTC Creo and only way to keep making money is through forced subscription. 

              BAD Idea PTC.

               

               

                B
                23-Emerald III
                BenLoosli23-Emerald III
                23-Emerald III
                July 9, 2019

                Subscriptions are the marketing tool of the 2010's.

                NX, SolidWorks, AutoCAD, and Creo use it now and I would guess SolidEdge does. CATIA is the only one I have no information on.

                 

                If buying new software for a start-up, I would look at a number of things before making the decision.

                1) What industry am I in

                2) What CAD software do others in my industry use

                3) What do potential customers and/or suppliers use

                4) Training

                5) Vendor Support

                6) Cost

                 

                You need to be able to exchange your CAD data with your customers and suppliers in today's world. No one does it all in-house any more.

                Who does the training? The vendor or third-party contract houses? PTC does very little training, it is all subcontracted out. Do these instructors have the development team to cover their backs when an issue comes up? I have only taken 3 courses from a PTC employee in 15 years of using PTC products. The other 12+ training classes have all been by a contracted VAR.

                Where is vendor support? I know we some companies use India for their contract support teams and that can lead to language issues and being removed from the development site can cause delays in getting issues resolved.

                Cost is the last thing to consider. If the software does its job for YOU and you get good support, that may be worth a little extra up front.

                K
                K2_018-Gravel
                8-Gravel
                May 17, 2025

                For many of us that competition is Solidworks. I have and use both every week. Creo is archaic and has gained little in 15 years, while Solidworks has (imo) overtaken it in the past two. For me Simulation carries Creo as the drafting package is execrable. I begrudge the 9-10% hike year after year for Creo maintenance on my Perpetual Licence. I don't begrudge a penny of my Solidworks. All my new customers use Solidworks. Regardless of intention, PTC are definitely making me move to the competitor. Ask yourself - who today, would choose Creo over Solidworks if they were starting a business? Creo is dying.

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