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byron.taylor1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 15, 2010
Question

Sketch tool

  • April 15, 2010
  • 5 replies
  • 1644 views
I am trying to do a volume mill on the enclosed part. The part starts
out as a solid billet of material. When I use a regular end mill I can
create the sequence but when I try to use the sketch tool it says the
tool is not applicable. I put a coordinate system on the tool but it
still would not work. This tool is an inserted feed mill that I sketched
the basic design. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

<<presentation1.ppt>> <<presentation2.ppt>>

Byron Taylor
Coordinator/Programmer

Danfoss commercial Compressors
One Scroll Drive
Arkadelphia, AR 71923
E-mail: byron.taylor@scrolltech.com
Tel.:870-246-0750

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5 replies

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DanielSantos1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 15, 2010
Sketched tools are only useful for Trajectory Sequences



Solid Tool will work like a charm as Barry spoted above...



HTH



Daniel Santos
Programador CNC Sr. - Suporte Aplicações CAM
GE Oil & Gas

T +55 11 4772-3565
M +55 12 8173-6567
F +55 11 4772-3775
-

Rodovia de Acesso João de Góes, 2300
Jandira - São Paulo - 06612-000 - Brasil
Vetco Gray Óleo e Gás LTDA

GE imagination at work
S
Spikaart1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 16, 2010
It would be great if we could use tool geometry that is not simply a radius for volume milling, roughing, etc. If you are using a high feed milling cutteryou still have to program with just a radiusand therefore you end up with a discrepancy between the program and what you actually get in the part you are cutting. Areas of a 3D part that have a slope on them will have more material left in reality than ProE thinks will be there. Where the slope of the geometry matches the angle of the high feed inserts there can be a substantial amount of material that is unaccounted for in Pro. Also, there often is small raised lines left at each slice that ProE doesn't know about thereby requiring us to make sure the cutter pulls out more than the sequence step depth or we end up with rapid moves across these raised lines.

We currently rough 3D geometry using a high feed mill and leave a rough stock allowance of .01". If we need to have tight control over the amount of material left over (+.002" or -.002") we have to re-cut with a ball nose or radius cutter in order to remove the extra material from the angle on the cutter inserts that isnot accounted for in ProE.

Maybe PTC can accommodate in future releases. This would definitely make the algorithm for tool paths more difficult but would allow users to rough with a high feel mill and accomplish a predictable and consistent amount of rough stock left on the actual part that is being milled. I think this would be a very valuable improvement to Pro.

Maybe someday soon...

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DanielSantos1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 16, 2010
I don´t think they will do it... no other software in the market offers it nor plan to I guess... and Pro/Nc is not known by its innovations... they always come up with something when it´s too late...



Daniel Santos
Programador CNC Sr. - Suporte Aplicações CAM
GE Oil & Gas

T +55 11 4772-3565
M +55 12 8173-6567
F +55 11 4772-3775
-

Rodovia de Acesso João de Góes, 2300
Jandira - São Paulo - 06612-000 - Brasil
Vetco Gray Óleo e Gás LTDA

GE imagination at work
S
Spikaart1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 16, 2010
Hi Steve,



Thanks for the offer.



The challenge is that even if you use it for your solid model, Pro/E
does not calculate the tool path based on your solid geometry. It
calculates it based on the dia. and radius. So if you have geometry on
the high feed mill inserts that isn't a simple radius (like a button
cutter or ball nose) then the high feed cutter will leave more material
on the sloped areas of your part than Pro/E thinks it's leaving.
Depending on the geometry of the inserts and the slope of the part it
could be as much as



What I would like is to be able to get the tool path to use geometry of
the cutter even if that geometry is as simple as a diameter and a
radius. I think the PTC programmers are the only ones who would be able
to fulfill that one and if they figure it out then I'm betting they will
be king of that hill for a long time without anyone else being able to
touch them. 😉 How's that for a challenge?





Steve Pikaart
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DanielSantos1-Visitor
1-Visitor
April 16, 2010
Steve,



The best way to ask for enhancements in PTC software is being member of the TCs... Although most of meetings are hosted online, there are a few ones where you need to be present... and companies hardly agree their employees taking time to attend virtual meetings... imagine them financing the travels that are sometimes necessary to attend the in person meetings...

I quit posting enhancement requests at PTC website because they do not answer them in a fashion time: In fact, they don't answer it at all without a lot of daily follow ups. I remember once I had to open a Technical Support Call to ask for a Product Manager to at least reply to my enhancement requests... embarrassing is not it?



Every CAM system in the market uses standardized definitions to geometrically (and mathematically) represent the tool shape for the toolpath algorithm... and high-feed cutters are difficult to be described accurately even in a basic fashion... there are too many dimensions to point to the CAM systems... they are hard even to sketch if you would consider the real shape close to the center... differential spacing depending on the number of teeth for example... it´s not a piece of cake at all... I see that PTC is very slow in terms of Pro/NC development... I still not understanding why they could not support ramp contouring for a simple 2D/trajectory toolpath... they claims they have "S" connection option for volume milling but it generates lots of unnecessary and stupid motions... why they decided to implement thread milling plunging along an axis only in WF5? Or in WF4, machine simulation, why we cannot have a config.pro option to set the accuracy or the number of the points generated by the animation algorithm so that I can catch up toolpath problems or small transitions during 5 axes milling?



The High-Feed tool support will not come from PTC, I´m 500% sure. If it comes, it will come from a more innovative CAM company such as Delcam, where they have hundreds of developers.... PTC used to have 40... and their revenues used to be bigger than Delcam, I don´t know if they still in the same level these days... It seems to me that at PTC they maximize the profit keeping a small number of developers and charging Pro/NC licensing as usual... I don´t think they invest the same money and time developing Pro/NC... things that have been available for years in low/mid end CAM systems are getting on Pro/NC only now... when they are available...



I know that numbers are important and every business needs to generate profits... but sometimes I would like to see some passion from the CAM developers to reach what was so-called "impossible"... there are just a few companies that are developing new technology in CAM field... most of them (Including PTC) are still making a good money with old CAM kernels that are limited by design to deliver innovations that are necessary these days... they would have to start from zero, unfortunately they are not Tracy Chapman singing "Fast Car"... they don´t want to loose at all...



Thanks for the compliment Steve, I´d like to say that I learn a lot here too... and if PTC or the VARs are not interested in helping us like they should, we have to work hard to make out this board stronger and get to know how to bypass the Pro/NC limitations and how the use what works well, well. This is what this place is about I think...



Regards,

Daniel Santos
Programador CNC Sr. - Suporte Aplicações CAM
GE Oil & Gas

T +55 11 4772-3565
M +55 12 8173-6567
F +55 11 4772-3775
-

Rodovia de Acesso João de Góes, 2300
Jandira - São Paulo - 06612-000 - Brasil
Vetco Gray Óleo e Gás LTDA

GE imagination at work
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