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svillafuerte1-Visitor
1-Visitor
August 26, 2014
Question

Welding Symbols on Drawings

  • August 26, 2014
  • 4 replies
  • 2858 views

OK, I am about to begin an argument with my company (Older employees and shop personel) about the fact that they want us to have Dual dimensions in our weld symbols. They have alreadybeen doingthis for years but our welds have never been real accurate callouts. And we already add a "crosshatch" to show where the weld goes (this is another issue I have but I am starting small on my arguments this time). Yes our drawings are all dual dimensioned so they assume they want the welds also dual dimensioned. I'm not sure what their arguments are going to be when we sit down but I can only imagine.I looked in the AWS A2.4:2012 standard and found:


6.16 U.S. Customary and SI Units. The same system that is the standard for the drawings shall be used on welding symbols. Dual units shall not be used on welding symbols. If it is desired to show conversions from SI to U.S. Customary Units or vice versa, a table of conversions may be included on the drawing.


So, the way I read this is that no matter how the drawing is dimensioned, the welds should never be dual dimenioned but only use the primary unit of measure on the drawing. And if a conversion is needed, to do that conversion by either adding a chart for the user to convert or refer to the AWS A1.1, Metric Practice Guide for the Welding Industry.


Any and all input to help me in my quest would be greatly appreciated. I think I will need more agument points to bring up when I get this meeting as there are a lot of old school hard headed thinkers of :we have done it all these years so why change now"


Also, the two major solid modeling packages we use, both do not use a dual dimensions weld, nor do they even allow the option to create one without making special symbols (which we have done before) and this is just fueling me more to drive this change of being correct from here on forward.


Thanks,


Shane Villafuerte





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4 replies

DonSenchuk12-Amethyst
12-Amethyst
August 26, 2014
Good luck with that. I've been part of a couple of those type of meetings (not specifically about dual dims). Unless you have buy-in from higher-ups that are willing to enforce the change, the opposition will just dig their heels in and become more obstinate. The worst part is if you lose, in environments like you describe, people will have an even greater tendency to dismiss your suggestions out of hand in the future.

Also, I read your problem and I can't help but immediately look to the following list hanging on my wall:

THE TOP 10 PHRASES TO KILL IDEAS AND STIFLE CREATIVE THINKING

1. That's not the way we've always done it.

2. Don't be ridiculous.

3. It will be more trouble than it's worth.

4. Thinking isn't your responsibility.

5. Good idea, but our plant is different.

6. Who do you think you are?

7. Somebody would have suggested it before if it were any good.

8. You're no good at creating ideas.

9. You don't understand our problems.

10. We can't do everything at once.

How many do you think they'll hit on this issue?
DeanLong1-Visitor
1-Visitor
August 26, 2014

Shane,


Ouch....I have been in that spot a few times on my road too. Don's suggestion is great andhas taken the respectful route and listed diplomatically the way to stay out of weeds. I think I have used every one of those and gotten bloody on more than one occasion.


It really will come down to who has the power and authority in the battle. I have found that by allowing the "other side" to present their case as to why it is important is a good thing. Then simply provide the evidence on how much it will cost them, either in productivity gain/loss, error potential, ECN's correcting those errors, etc..... Usually people will fight for simple reasons: to be "right", convenience for them or from an emotional/vested interest perspective. Sit back, ask why it's important and listen. Then tell them what the reality is if they make that decision. If there is a BossMan responsible and he has to pay for it, well, it's on him and you have a bit more job security.


My $.02

TimKnier1-Visitor
1-Visitor
August 26, 2014
Ask them if not having dual dimensioned weld symbols will make it impossible or inconvenient for anyone to build that piece of equipment. If not, there's no reason for them and all they're doing is cluttering up the drawing. Plus all of the extra time and money that's being wasted to create them.

Tim Knier
QG Product & Support Engineering
QuadTech
A Subsidiary of Quad/Graphics
Sussex, Wisconsin
414-566-7439 phone
-<">mailto:->
www.quadtechworld.com<">http://www.quadtechworld.com>
mlocascio1-Visitor
1-Visitor
August 26, 2014
Timothy Knier,



That is a VERY GOOD POINT! Dual dimensioning actually is a very cluttered
way to dimension and note drawings. I would hope that the company can
migrate into a more universal standard, so that the documentation can be
simplified. I understand that many companies want/need to serve 2 different
measuring systems. I find that sometimes it is just better to bite the
bitter pill and go metric. This is especially true if you are trying to do
international business.



Michael P. Locascio


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