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kmccain1-Visitor
1-Visitor
June 24, 2014
Question

PE vs APP vs Print Composer

  • June 24, 2014
  • 37 replies
  • 6760 views

Hi,


We currently use Editor and Print Composer to produce print and PDF manuals. I'm being asked about change page capability for an upcoming RFQ and what we might need to support that. Would that be DTD and style sheet dependent only or do we need another product completely?


I've looked at the PTC product pages and have to admit I'm not sure what the differences are between PE and APP. I can see that APP comes in desktop and enterprise flavors. But I also don't see anything about change page capability on either product.


I was hoping maybe someone on the forum could point me to a good comparison chart or perhaps share a little insight on the differences if you have experience with them.


Thanks,


KM


    37 replies

    N
    naglists1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 24, 2014
    Publishing Engine is a server-side instance of "Editor" more or less.
    Authors use Editor (usually) to submit composition requests to PE across
    their corporate network.

    PE has the ability to use either composition engine (FOSI or APP) as well
    as others (XSL, for example).

    You should be able to use your current DTD and stylesheet although,
    especially if you are upgrading version-wise, you will probably need to
    make at least a few stylesheet updates to accommodate changes in the
    composition product (even assuming you continue to use the FOSI engine).
    You will have to make more updates if you have complex formatting
    requirements. You Will have to make more updates if you are jumping "far."
    6.0 to 6.1, probably not too bad. 4.3 to 6.1 ... lots of effort!

    You may also be changing how your PDFs are generated. If you are using
    Distiller on your PC, you can use it with PE but (last I looked) Adobe
    licenses a server-side version of Distiller for a lot more than the
    workstation pricing. (PE, too, will be lots more expensive than your Editor
    license.) Many people choose to use the PDF generation capability that
    ships "free" with PE "PDF Direct" or "Direct PDF" I can never remember. It
    behaves differently in a couple of ways that may also require stylesheet
    and supporting file (.dcf, for example) updates.

    Moving to the APP composition engine is probably a much bigger jump ... but
    I can't speak directly to that since I've never done it. Anyhow, if you
    were using Styler, it wouldn't probably be that bad (assuming a minimum of
    source edits), but from FOSI, it may be a big deal. Again, the more complex
    your FOSI, the bigger the jump.

    Change Page is something of a beast. Your DTD and stylesheet will most
    definitely be deeply involved with that requirement. Again, not something
    I've done, so I can't speak to that from experience. Whether there is APP
    support for that, I don't recall. I think you're in FOSI-land if you're
    doing Change Page.

    Hope that helps.


    On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Kim McCain <->
    wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > We currently use Editor and Print Composer to produce print and PDF
    > manuals. I'm being asked about change page capability for an upcoming RFQ
    > and what we might need to support that. Would that be DTD and style sheet
    > dependent only or do we need another product completely?
    >
    > I've looked at the PTC product pages and have to admit I'm not sure what
    > the differences are between PE and APP. I can see that APP comes in desktop
    > and enterprise flavors. But I also don't see anything about change page
    > capability on either product.
    >
    > I was hoping maybe someone on the forum could point me to a good
    > comparison chart or perhaps share a little insight on the differences if
    > you have experience with them.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > KM
    >
    >
    >
    N
    naglists1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 24, 2014
    Print Composer implies the use of FOSI composition engine.... just locally
    on your PC rather than on a server. (Making explicit what was implicit in
    my response.)

    At least, I think this is true ... that Print Composer does not support
    APP. If they added APP support to it, it was after I stopped using it.


    On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Paul Nagai <->
    wrote:

    > Publishing Engine is a server-side instance of "Editor" more or less.
    > Authors use Editor (usually) to submit composition requests to PE across
    > their corporate network.
    >
    > PE has the ability to use either composition engine (FOSI or APP) as well
    > as others (XSL, for example).
    >
    > You should be able to use your current DTD and stylesheet although,
    > especially if you are upgrading version-wise, you will probably need to
    > make at least a few stylesheet updates to accommodate changes in the
    > composition product (even assuming you continue to use the FOSI engine).
    > You will have to make more updates if you have complex formatting
    > requirements. You Will have to make more updates if you are jumping "far."
    > 6.0 to 6.1, probably not too bad. 4.3 to 6.1 ... lots of effort!
    >
    > You may also be changing how your PDFs are generated. If you are using
    > Distiller on your PC, you can use it with PE but (last I looked) Adobe
    > licenses a server-side version of Distiller for a lot more than the
    > workstation pricing. (PE, too, will be lots more expensive than your Editor
    > license.) Many people choose to use the PDF generation capability that
    > ships "free" with PE "PDF Direct" or "Direct PDF" I can never remember. It
    > behaves differently in a couple of ways that may also require stylesheet
    > and supporting file (.dcf, for example) updates.
    >
    > Moving to the APP composition engine is probably a much bigger jump ...
    > but I can't speak directly to that since I've never done it. Anyhow, if you
    > were using Styler, it wouldn't probably be that bad (assuming a minimum of
    > source edits), but from FOSI, it may be a big deal. Again, the more complex
    > your FOSI, the bigger the jump.
    >
    > Change Page is something of a beast. Your DTD and stylesheet will most
    > definitely be deeply involved with that requirement. Again, not something
    > I've done, so I can't speak to that from experience. Whether there is APP
    > support for that, I don't recall. I think you're in FOSI-land if you're
    > doing Change Page.
    >
    > Hope that helps.
    >
    >
    > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Kim McCain <->
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> We currently use Editor and Print Composer to produce print and PDF
    >> manuals. I'm being asked about change page capability for an upcoming RFQ
    >> and what we might need to support that. Would that be DTD and style sheet
    >> dependent only or do we need another product completely?
    >>
    >> I've looked at the PTC product pages and have to admit I'm not sure what
    >> the differences are between PE and APP. I can see that APP comes in desktop
    >> and enterprise flavors. But I also don't see anything about change page
    >> capability on either product.
    >>
    >> I was hoping maybe someone on the forum could point me to a good
    >> comparison chart or perhaps share a little insight on the differences if
    >> you have experience with them.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> KM
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    G
    GarethOakes16-Pearl
    16-Pearl
    June 25, 2014
    Hi Kim,

    I thought you may benefit from another perspective in addition to Paul's excellent response.

    It depends on what change page capability is required, but typically this will involve heavy changes to the stylesheet. Certain requirements may be difficult or impossible to meet in an automated fashion. Arbortext had a Change Page Application product but it was custom-built only for use with US military DTDs and had many limitations and shortcomings and is no longer for sale, if that helps give an indication of the complexity.

    While change page requirements can be challenging, I can confirm from personal experience that APP (3B2) has been used to fully automate change page handling for complex applications at companies such as Boeing and Wolters Kluwer. Boutique vendors in the community, such as my employer GPSL, are able to provide assistance with these type of systems.

    Regards your questions on the product range:

    * Editor - only for authoring/editing content, no print capability
    * Publishing Engine - provides server-based print capability to Editor clients (amongst other things)
    * Styler - is like Editor on steroids, and includes desktop-based print capability (amongst other things)
    * APP - available as Enterprise, Server or Desktop

    The APP "engine" is also available inside Publishing Engine and Styler since 6.0 M020 (I suspect Print Composer too, but haven't tested). This allows desktop or server based print composition via the APP engine. The dedicated APP Enterprise and Server products do not integrate with Editor (although they are easily integrated with 3rd party systems).

    APP Desktop can be used for running desktop print jobs or actually editing the pages before they are PDF. Print Composer (FOSI) has no equivalent to this, but you can think of it like an editable print preview window.

    I hope that helps.

    // Gareth Oakes
    // Chief Architect, GPSL
    // www.gpsl.co
    E
    ebenton1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014
    Gareth,
    You mentioned "...Paul's excellent response" in your reply. I have seen no other responses to Kim's email. Would you please post more information on "...Paul's excellent response"?

    Our customer sporadically gets very excited about change pages.

    So far, the excitement has always died when the cost of this feature arises. However, we expect the subject to never go away entirely and expect that some future infusion of money into the program may resurrect the issue.

    We are always keeping an eye out for any information on this publishing capability.
    G
    GarethOakes16-Pearl
    16-Pearl
    June 25, 2014
    Hi Ed,

    I’m afraid I don’t have your email address handy - if you email me directly at goakes at gpsl.co<">http://gpsl.co> then I will forward you Paul’s email.

    You’re right that change pages can be costly but if you offset that capital development expense against productivity gains then you often find it makes sense.

    Cheers,
    Gareth

    On 25 Jun 2014, at 21:22 , Benton, Ed L <-<<a style="COLOR:" blue;=" text-decoration:=" underline&quot;=" target="_BLANK" href="mailto:-">>">mailto:->> wrote:

    Gareth,
    You mentioned “…Paul’s excellent response” in your reply. I have seen no other responses to Kim’s email. Would you please post more information on “…Paul’s excellent response”?

    Our customer sporadically gets very excited about change pages.

    So far, the excitement has always died when the cost of this feature arises. However, we expect the subject to never go away entirely and expect that some future infusion of money into the program may resurrect the issue.

    We are always keeping an eye out for any information on this publishing capability.
    K
    kmccain1-VisitorAuthor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014

    Hi again,


    Thanks for the great information, Gareth. That goes some way to helping me.


    As a matter of fact, I did see the "Change Page for Defense" product in the PTC matrix and noticed that it only supported Editor 5.3/5.4. It happens that the dtd we are looking to support is MIL-STD-3001 so maybe that would have supported what we are looking to do for our customer? Are you saying that it is no longer for sale at all, or that it will never be updated to support Editor 6?

    T
    tbihlmeyer1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014
    The Change Page for Defense Application has been updated to work with 6.0 and as far as I know is still for sale. It covers specific doctypes. I believe there are 20 or 21.

    K
    kmccain1-VisitorAuthor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014

    Paul,


    I have to confess I'm not sure exactly what APP is - a different type of print engine?


    We use Print Composer in both node-locked and floating versions to support multiple authors and most of our stylesheets are FOSI, but we do also use some XSL stylesheets as well with it and they work OK if that means anything although we usually have to tweak things a bit.

    A
    AndyEsslinger1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014
    Gareth,

    Why not just post the information (...Paul's excellent response) to adepters? I am in the same position as Ed (intermittently the customer gets excited about loose-leaf change pages, then, when we ask for money, their enthusiasm dries up quickly). Anything that has to do with loose-leaf change pages is always interesting - one way or another.

    P
    ptc-9252011-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    June 25, 2014
    Hi Kim,
    You could adjust your print FOSI to enable some change page capability but you will still have to hack up the PDFs to deliver a good product.
    I would recommend you look into PTC's Change Page Application (CPA). It is a fully automated change page solution. We had very demanding technical manual change package schedules to meet and CPA made it possible. We have used it for the past 4 years and we have not had any problems with it. It is an add-on to Editor, is server-based and delivers excellent page fidelity. There are several in the box DTDs and FOSIs that accompany the CPA and they are all defense related.


    ______________
    Brian Wirth

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