13-Aquamarine

Question

The Mail Exploder is at risk, Speak up NOW!

Forum|Forum|11 years ago
June 17, 2014
119 replies
33717 views

The shocking news from day one of PTC Live is that PTC want's to "absorb" the mail exploder into their on-line communities forum.http://communities.ptc.com you'll see the announcement of this at the top of the page.

I went up to Ron and Dan durning the break and said what are you doing to my mail exploder. The answer was there was pressure to only have one source of communication instead of some stuff on the forum and some via the mail exploder. They are having discussions next week on how to transfer the data from ptcuser to the ptc site.

I asked if I was still going to get emails and the answer was no.

I'm sorry but this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Make no mistake, if you don't raise your voice on this issue the mail exploder will disappear.

Dave Haigh

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JonathanHodgson

13-Aquamarine

"IF PTC would GUARANTEE that their tech support was American for Americans"

Hey, Michael: what have you got against UK-based Pro/Users? 😉 We need tech support too sometimes!

Jonathan

JWayman

1-Visitor

He just assumed we were all too brilliant to need support! 🐵

John

<../../../../../t0038633/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Signatures/www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

ptc-4136280

1-Visitor

I am not a very good user of Creo/ProE as I don't get day to day exposure to it and when I have had a question I went to this support system. Being a former AutoCAD user (and occasionally yet) one thing that Autodesk users did was create their own email support system (WAUN - World Autodesk Users Network) with the group donating monies toward the site. If PTC dumps the email based support and in that support is someone that is knowledgeable about creating and maintaining one and the current users would donate to it cost, then maybe that would be the way to go.

Lori Bonser
Senior Draftperson, Patterson-Kelley
Harsco Industrial
155 Burson Street
East Stroudsburg, PA 18301
Office 570.476.7315
Fax 570.476.8637

BrianMartin

13-Aquamarine

Hi Everyone...

I wanted to respond to the planned merge of PTC/User and PTC Community. I believe this can be a positive development. However, I understand the apprehension and concerns voiced by many people.

After reading dozens of emails, it seems most of the criticism of the 'big merge' comes in one of several flavors of invalid/unsubstantiated concerns (list omitted for civility) as well as some real, relevant ones:

* Lack of genuine independence from PTC

* Loss of email simplicity and ease of use

* Concerns that PTC Community requires a login with username/password

* Concerns that sites like PTC Community will be blocked and therefore inaccessible from work computers

* Understandable feelings of loss and apprehension stemming from the change of a longstanding institution.

This shift will be what we make it. There's no reason why we can't address the email and ease of use issues while bringing everyone together under one roof. I understand some people don't trust PTC for a host of reasons both real and perceived. Therefore, some may want that 'one roof' to be outside of PTC's control. I think we can have a vibrant, passionate, lively forum for discussion, training, and help within PTC Community. I agree that the site requires changes so it operates as efficiently as the exploder. However, there are already many exploder-like features which bring us closer together than many people may realize.

I'd plead for people to wait for the planned merge to take shape and evaluate the new system on the merits. Before rushing to judgment, why not work together to build a system which benefits everyone. I think we can build consensus without alienating anyone. No one should have to vow that they'll 'never again go to PTC Community' in protest. We're all adults here. Many of us work for world leading corporations and government agencies. Surely we're capable of reasonable and productive debate, impassioned though it may be.

@unknown Haugh: I have a good deal of respect for you... however, 1799 users is not more than you'll find on PTC Community. Besides out of that 1799, most people don't participate and about 50 people have actually died and are yet still receiving emails. 😉

@Gerry Champoux: Same point as above. Your perception that there are more people on the exploder is mathematically incorrect. Most people simply don't know about the exploder. For pete's sake it's the worst advertised forum in the history of Western Civilization. The web portal looks like it was designed circa 1996 but even if you look past that, much of the information on the PTC User site is stale and useless.

@Marshall Sexton: You're confusing PTC Communities with tech support. They are not the same. If you call tech support and they're terrible (like they usually are), please don't paint PTC Community with the same brush. We often answer questions tech support cannot answer in minutes... just like the exploder (except with better content in my personal opinion).

@jose Resendis: Like Marshall Sexton, you're confusing the inept PTC Tech Support (which is horrid) to PTC Community. When you post a question on PTC Community, people like me answer your question. I certainly have a 'real job' and I am certainly also 'very busy', but I stop to answer questions all the time. Frequently the community is faster and provides better, more inventive solutions than tech support. I can point to dozens of examples.

@Dean Long: PTC Support is not the same as PTC Community. And PTC does not sanitize anything there short of outright flame wars. People have posted some blistering criticisms of PTC on the community... and there has never been censorship. The quality of support on PTC Community squashes anything available from tech support.

@unknown Taylor: There are plenty of raving users on PTC Community. You don't see them being censored. I consider many of those harsh critics my friends... and some of the best contributors.

@doug Barton: I don't see how this is a financial move by PTC? PTC Community is not generating revenue for PTC... nor is PTC/User... so I'm missing your point. I believe you're connecting dots that should not be connected.

@unknown Lockwood: Any company would be extremely lucky to hire you... I can't imagine you'll be unemployed for more than a few hours. I agree with most of the points you made with the one exception that I don't agree that there's a lack of passion on the PTC Community site. There are many passionate contributors on PTC Community just as there are on the exploder.

@Christopher Gosnell: A forum at Reddit would be worse than any social site. I don't think a new Creo forum would go really well next to the questionable porn and other seedy 'information' that frequently gains media exposure on Reddit.

@Terry Johnson: Yahoo, same problem as Reddit (see above).

Surely we can find common ground on this issue. Once we strip away the hurt feelings and general mistrust for PTC, I believe we can work together to address the valid concerns people have raised. Wouldn't it be great to have a community where everyone can participate... that plays to the strengths of both PTC User and PTC Community? I made a case for this two years ago at the January Technical Committees and you'd have thought I suggested people go out and harm kittens and puppies.

While I firmly believe 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', one can hardly say our current system is ideal. I think we need to evolve... not all change is bad. For everyone making the case that all we need is the same old exploder we've always had, I don't see you throwing your I-Phones in the trash so you can use a landline. Maybe we can channel all of our energy into developing a better site that meets all of our needs. This should be a win/win... if we choose to make it so.

Best regards,

Brian K. Martin
Sr. Mechanical/Application Engineer
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

301.286.0059 (NASA Office)
443.421.2532 (Cell)
-<">mailto:->
________________________________

BillLipka

1-Visitor

My $.02 comment: Keep the exploder. It's been an extremely efficient was to get help in a timely manner, receiving emails specific to your post being the best part of the solution (and the level of expertiece of the user community...).

Bill Lipka

General Dynamics C4 Systems

STEVEG

21-Topaz I

Brian,

First of all how can we "strip away the hurt feelings and general mistrust for PTC" when there is SUUUUCH a track record over soooo many years.

Secondly, I believe the main obstacle of everyone accepting moving is there doesn't seem to be email support that allows starting a topic or responding to a topic. There have been so many responses that I am not sure if this was confirmed or not. I thought I saw someone mention there is email support. But I don't believe it's the same as what the exploder users are used to.

And third, the email support issue is NOT invalid/unsubstantiated. But I guess it depends on whether that is in your "most of the criticism" or not. There are people that won't be able to participate in the "community" if there is no email support. There will also be others that just won't participate because of that.

Personally, I have no problem moving provided that email support is there. I get the emails and I go to the site but I almost never do go there because it is so easy to read the emails and respond via email. If going to the site to see if there is something I can either respond to or make a note of for later use is the only way to participate then it is a waste of time for me because there WILL be times I have nothing to respond with nor have anything to save. I don't see myself going to the PTC Community site much for the forum.

Lastly, Dan Glenn's email about the plan. He tells us what the initial plan is. He also tells us what they are NOT doing. This includes not "Enhancing or changing the way PTC Community works today". So they will NOT "Enhance or change the way PTC Community works today"? And you want us to strip away the hurt feelings and general mistrust?

Ok I lied. One more last thing since the email from Mike O came in while I was writing this. I agree whole-heartedly with his comment. I don't, and I'm sure almost all of you don't, have the time to go and just browse the site for information very often because we have nothing to do. The only time I do is if I am doing research for a problem.

Steve G

davehaigh

Author

13-Aquamarine

Brian,
For the vast majority of us, in our view the exploder works fine and needs no improvement. I think there is no problem with it at all.

For the few people that complain about each new email tacked onto the previous 100, the rest of us want that, because it gives us context to the question without having to go back and find previous emails. It's just more efficient. That's the beauty of a major domo mail exploder.

When we are reading a hot topic like this we don't read each email in its entirety, we just read the new one at the top, and down just far enough to get the context.

Those who complain about all the emails in their in box need to figure out how to filter their incoming mail. All mail clients will do this. I have folders for each mail exploder I'm subscribed to, and I never see these emails in my in box.

What really concerns us is amply illustrated with this quote from Nathan Rollins earlier email. It the kind of thing that makes my blood boil.
"I was in Boston for the Show and talked to Ryan personally on Monday evening and the decision is made - it will happen (according to him - it is HIS baby)."

My immediate thought was who died and made him God? I don't know this guy from Adam, but man, that is some arrogance!

Assuming this is a done deal like the god Ryan said, I think the thing our users want are for it to work like an exploder for those of us that want email.

1. You need to have a setting for the user to choose how they want to receive the content.

a. Web access only

b. Web plus email

i. Just the subject line

ii. Complete new email

iii. Complete thread in email

c. Email only

i. Just the subject line

ii. Complete new email

iii. Complete thread in email

2. There should be no requirement to have to log in to reply by email.

3. There should be some software solution to strip out old thread material from users replying to a complete thread email. You can't depend on them to strip it out the old content for you.

PS. You misspelled my name.

David Haigh

tcooper

1-Visitor

Brian,
As a fellow plank owner (Diamond) of Planet PTC, perhaps you can educated everyone how to set up their Planet PTC account and subscribe to a community to get the content and access that mimics this exploder? Perhaps Planet PTC or PTC/USER could schedule a series of WebEx's to do this?

Tim P. Cooper
Lead Designer
GE Oil & Gas
North American ATO

T +1 281 878 6168
M +1 281 796 9038
F +1 281 715 4116
-<">mailto:->
www.ge.com

davehaigh

Author

13-Aquamarine

So I was googling for mail exploders. There are a few alternatives to major domo. Which used to be what the exploder was run on, I don't know what's controlling it behind the curtain now.

Found these:

ptc-1932745

1-Visitor

My use of the reddit reference was as an example of a community supported blog / forum that gets quite a lot of traffic, and can expand / contract dynamically as needed by the USERS. Earlier on slashdot was a pioneer (in my opinion) with regard to a similar format.

I regularly browse r/engineering, r/solidworks, r/cad, r/askengineers, r/design, etc... and find very little to no 'questionable porn and other seedy 'information' ' that you speak of. Mostly by setting my front page to collect the most upvoted comments from these sub/forums.

Because the reddit community upvotes or downvotes content, the system is self-correcting. I understand that some/many users cannot get access to 'social' websites, and this then becomes not viable.

Newer members of the Internet community (students, mostly anyone under the age of 30), will probably go these social sites first, precisely because the forum has a low barrier to entry, and the community police themselves.

BTW, I almost never visit the Solidworks community forums for precisely the reasons listed in the last few days regarding the PTC forums. It is too difficult to skim a forum as it exists, searching the quite sizeable haystack for a few needles of relevant content. So the problem may not be with PTC specifically, but the forum format as it exists today.

Christopher F. Gosnell

FPD Company
124 Hidden Valley Road
McMurray, PA 15317

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