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1-Visitor
August 1, 2016
Solved

problem with units

  • August 1, 2016
  • 4 replies
  • 6541 views

Hello dear community!

I know that there were many discussions about units but I cannot find(understand) help for my issue. I am trying to put in units but failed. I need Q in Watts, W in kg/h and show C in units like it is given in API 520 I. I will be very grateful if someone can help, explain how to solve it.

Regards,

Aydan

Best answer by akazimli

Thank you again! problem is solved!

Regards,

Aydan

4 replies

12-Amethyst
August 1, 2016

Hi

Q in watts is not a heat, is a power, this is, how many units of heat energy flows at any second. For this case, the energy unit is Joule. Other usual unit could be BTU/hr or cal/sec. So, "correct" letter for that heat flow is "Q.dot".

Other variants of express "heat" are Q', Q'' and Q''', which usually represent heat by length, surface and volume, and the combination also, but less usual, of Q.dot', Q.dot'' and Q.dot'''

Finally, you have sometimes the convention that Q in uppercase is heat, but q could represent heat by kilogram or by mol, and the same combinations with primes and dots.

For the work and mechanical energy, have the same considerations.

W in kg/hr is bad, if W means as usual, work, and I can't interpret it as something like work, including the case that was not kg but kgf.

In many norms, as they are old, and the revisers don't want to improve so much, the conversion factors are inside the formulas, which is a very bad practice. In this cases, using mathcad, you must to take out those factors from the formulas, and rewrite them in a better form.

That seems to be the case for the formulas Q = 70900*1*Awet and W = 3600*Q/λ.

So, maybe could get better help if you put some picture of the formulation that want to use in mathcad.

Best regards.

Alvaro.

23-Emerald V
August 1, 2016

I've just had a very brief look at the API520 ... I've passed it on to the BIPM and they are now busily putting together a SWAT team to erase the API from the face of the earth for crimes against units.   kPag? kPaa?

I think that the C coefficient should have a multiply rather than a subtract to attain some form of dimensional consistency.

Stuart

from an old National Physical Laboratory (NPL) FAQ:

What do the letters 'g' and 'a' denote after a pressure unit? (FAQ - Pressure)

The letters are meant to stand for gauge-mode and absolute-mode respectively - where a gauge-mode pressure is one normally measured with respect to ambient pressure and an absolute-mode pressure is one measured with respect to zero pressure (a more detailed explanation of pressure modes).

Despite appearing on many pressure instruments however, abbreviations such as barg, psig, kPaA, kPaG, bara, psia etcetera are not legitimate and such formatting conflicts with international written standards and good practice, and should not be used. Similarly the letters NG, ng, D or d should not be used to denote negative gauge-mode or differential-mode pressures. Where needed, the distinction should come instead through the context of use, essentially meaning that the words absolute and gauge should be printed in full next to the pressure unit - for example: bar absolute and kPa gauge. This method of formatting leaves the underlying unit intact (bar, kPa in the previous examples) and avoids implying that the unit is in some way altered by the suffix.

Part of the reason for this seemingly pedantic rule is that pressure is a quantity derived from knowledge of force and area (pressure = force/area) and none of the fundamental pressure unit definitions take the operational mode directly into account. The meanings of gauge- and absolute-mode cannot be defined as clearly and accurately as the underlying unit - for example does gauge mean 'with respect to ambient atmospheric pressure' or perhaps 'a pressure close to but not necessarily exactly at prevailing atmospheric pressure'? Is the reference pressure in an absolute mode measurement 1 000 Pa (that is about 1% of nominal atmospheric pressure - a 'good' vacuum to many people), 1 Pa, 0.0001 Pa or some other pressure? (See definition of a vacuum.) Thus there are no legitimate pressure units ending in 'a' or 'g' etc and there are never likely to be any.

Whatever pressure units you are using, if you want to follow internationally agreed and recognised conventions (recommended!) a descriptive word should be used to denote the pressure mode and not a letter.

12-Amethyst
August 1, 2016

Seems that W mean "weight". In this case, kg/hr, which is a caudal, or "gasto" in spanish, where we use g or m.dot. Also, remember that a weight is a force, so use W can cause a lot of unnecessary confusion.

See this Pentair book.

Best regards.

Alvaro.

23-Emerald I
August 1, 2016

You've defined Q as two numbers without units times an area.

How do you expect it to be Watts?  For Q to be Watts, 70900 needs units:

of mass/(time cubed)

akazimli1-VisitorAuthor
1-Visitor
August 2, 2016

Thank you all for comments, I changed speadsheet and it is works, but! I need A wetted in formula for Q in 0.82 power and when I make it units change again. What is the trick, please explain.

Regards,

Aydan

akazimli1-VisitorAuthorAnswer
1-Visitor
August 2, 2016

Thank you again! problem is solved!

Regards,

Aydan

12-Amethyst
August 2, 2016

Hi.

Check w, I guess it is wrong.

The way that you solve the problem, is one. The other is changing the formulation, for example, eliminate the factor 3600 as it is a convertion factor, but with this you loose the book formula. Another is using the API description, where they say in which units variables must to be expresed, and divede by them. In your case, Aw/m^2. And multipliying the result by the unit in which the variable description say that the final result was expressed, in this case watts. This method is, for me, better. With that, don't need to express the FC factor with those strange units. See the picture attached, from the page 108 of the pdf that I was posted above.

Best regards.

Alvaro.

q.gif

q2.gif

akazimli1-VisitorAuthor
1-Visitor
August 4, 2016

Hello,

thank you for answer.

I am confused, you made w unitles and then add required unit?

Regards,

Aydan