Reality being what it is, the GUI is not changing in WF5 and is going to be expanded in WF6. On that note, does anyone have any good tutorial slides that explain the thought process of the drawing ribbon UI? I will probably be teach my engineers how to use it and it would make sense to understand not only the picks and clicks but the mindset you might be in when using it. From what it seems, you need to switch modes in your head along with right tab on top. "I'm laying out views", "Now I am dropping dimensions", "Now I am working with tables and BOM balloons". Something like that.

J

J1SRC

8-Gravel

I give the ribbon a 2 (I hate it). Its non productive. The users should have the ability to customize the RMB menus to there needs. You can customize all the other menus why not the RMB's also? And whats up with the appearances? It used to be real simple to change a part color. Now you have to RMB and pick other and select the model in the menu otherwise you end up selecting a surface. I think this is a step in the wrong direction.

P

ptc-191798

7-Bedrock

In response to the blue UI, you can change it with a config.pro option:

ui_theme

The options are:

wildfire_5

wildfire

standard

Standard using the Windows colour settings.

With this and a custom syscol file you can remedy your dislike to the UI colours:

ui_theme standard

system_colors_file <Path>\syscol.scl

(thanks to Brent on the syscol.scl)

S

StevePelton

1-Visitor

I rate general WF5 a 4

WF5 drawing Ribbon UI -10

Creo 1.0 is going to be Ribbon UI everywhere

Frank mentions that we keep having to learn a new UI at every new release, the worst being from 2001 to Wildfire.

Now Mike Campbell admits that moving to Creo 1.0 will be a similar experience to moving from 2001 to Wildfire:

http://www.youtube.com/user/arcadiaplm?blend=16&ob=5#p/u/0/n4xJKMH28Ag

G

GrahameWard

1-Visitor

I've been using ProE since 1996. I hate the ribbon too. It's extra mouse clicks for everything. I acknowledged to myself that the old drawing mode was out of date, too many menu cascades and it was long overdue for an overhaul. In fact I used to think that maybe PTC were phasing out drawing mode altogether because it had barely changed over the previous releases of WF.

Still after a several weeks on it, it's still a pain in the backside. The tabs are a hassle. If your layout tab is on top, you can't pick a dimension. If your annotate tab is on top you can't pick a table. It's ridiculous.

But..... what fills me with a white hot hatred is the Simplified Rep menu in Assembly mode. You used to be able to pick parts on the screen or on the Tree, but now by default a big field comes up and you have to have the part names memorized to pick them there. If you want to pick them on the screen like before there's a drop down menu to get to that function. Then you can pick them on the screen. Then if you pick multiple components and click middle button you go back to the field and the parts you picked are now highlighted.

But I'll be damned if I can do a single action to the multiple parts I've just taken so long to pick. If I check one box of one of the highlighted components, that one part changes but the others are cleared and no longer highlighted. I've gone to the ridiculous step of taking a screen shot when I get to the highlighted parts in the field, then I can remember what I want to exclude and pick each one individually again after I've already gone to the trouble of picking them on the screen in the first place. And my assemblies are not that big. I can't imagine what companies that have assemblies of hundreds or thousands of parts do. It must take half a day to make a freaking Simplified Rep.

This is pathetic, that something that used to work so well now takes 2 or 3 more times as many mouse clicks to achieve exactly the same outcome. How is this progress?

A

Anonymous

Hi Graham,

I do not quite get your point on the simp reps.

In the selection-assistent window you can select either in the tree or on screen within that window.
What helps if you want to see the model is to switch it to Master first in the tree (right mouse button) since it is excluded by default.
After (multi-) selection you choose -using the context menu- what to do with the selection (Derived -> following the next higher tree node, Exclude, Master).

Also you can decide wether the active or inactive comps are displayed. I often deactivate everything switch to inactive view then select the comps I want to keep and set them to Master which will make them disappear. This is a great way to work yourself into a model from the outside.

Then again you can start doing your simp rep on the standard screen by picking (or using a search) the comps and switching the view mode (right mouse button: representation...) not using the new selection-assistent at all.
Once what you have on screen is what you want you go to the view manager and save what you have as a new simp rep.

Overall I think that pretty much everything about simp reps has improved (on demand, preview, selection-assistent).

I think it is really a matter of knowing how to work all the new tools.

Best Regards,
Constantin

D

DavorGranic

16-Pearl

PTC should have seen backlash from AutoCAD going to ribbon type GUI. I can live with it but having to switch tabs to do certain actions is anoying. Holding ALT while selecting doesnt help much. There should be some kind of autoswitch to handle this. Default drawing colours are a disaster. Light blue background with pink? Realy? I reverted to WF4 colours on day 1. You can setup ProE anyway you like but the point is that default setings dont put you off from using software. There is a list of stuff and comands that are too many clicks away from using, like giving material to part for example etc.

All in all i give GUI a 3.

I

IainTrice

1-Visitor

I agree about the Ribbon in AutoCAD, but at least you have the option of using Classic UI and customized toolbars.

I came to ProE on WF3, having converted over from using Catia and UGNX, (both superior CAD packages in my view) and had only just got used to it after about a year. Then my company upgraded to WF5.

Its UI is a mishmash of styles and layouts and having to re-learn where commands and functions are has seriously cost productivity. The ribbon in drawing is rubbish! In fact the mass move to these ribbon concepts by any number of software providers must be costing industry dear. I used to be a wizz at excel but now can't find the most basic stuff in the latest version.

Why do software companies have to mess with the product in such a way that you have to retrain with each upgrade?

G

GrahameWard

1-Visitor

I've just spent 5 minutes trying to edit the attachment of a BOM balloon. Turns out you have to have the Table or Annotate tab active for that to show up when you RMB. Now that I can do it for some reason I can't even replicatre the problem I had before. It's like it didn't even exist.

This ribbon is a pile of fetid dingoes kidneys.

B

BrianMartin

13-Aquamarine

Love the rage ... and I have felt your pain since 1991.

I made a pretty nice living with PTC products... but I have a real love/hate relationship with PTC.

Yet again they monkeyed with the interface for no good reason. Oh, they HAVE a reason, it's just the same bad excuse as always (Microsoft's doing it so we HAD to change, too!)

Yet again they added enhancements of dubious usefulness. But is anyone really surprised? This happens every few years. There was a day when I could FLY through my Pro/E work with mapkeys. With each successive release, the mapkeys work less and less. You're forced to use the "improved" screen or context menus. These are never BETTER... they're always slower, less flexible, less intuitive. Yet with each release we have to hear how they've reduced menu picks and mouse movement by 9000%. Somehow though... it never seems to get faster and it's always a bigger hassle.

The more advanced functions ALWAYS get buried deeper and deeper within the package. They always get harder and harder to find. It's as if they're purposely dumbing down the software to make it look more like <fill in flavor of the week software here- solidworks, NX, inventor, etc>.

The whole process is annoying. I don't know ONE real expert user who isn't unbelievably frustrated by the entire affair. It's wishful thinking to believe PTC is magically going to change the way they do business. Instead, I think it's up to us to figure out a way to make the software work for us. I know... I know... it shouldn't BE that way... but it IS that way and it always has been.

Like I said, I feel your pain.

G

GrahameWard

1-Visitor

If you hate it, sign the petition!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/remove-the-ribbon/

Patriot_1776

22-Sapphire II

I forgot I started this. Now that I've been forced to use it, I'll write more when I can evaluate it more and can rant in more detail (lack of time now).

Lets just say, the positive changes in the modeling mode for me are offset by the extra hassle and menu-picks and the fact my mapkeys don't work anymore. Pisses me off. As for dwg mode....absolutely HATE IT! What a Micros#ck-inspired joke. No wonder the experienced users hate it. It's far slower and more cumbersome in actual use no matter what the software developers (who've never USED it in real-world situations) claim. Tabs? SRSLY? And, the "ALT" does NOT work for a lot of the functions, you STILL have to find the right tab. Ugh! I'll have to get myself a new sharp stick to poke myself in the eyes with now because I wore the tip off of my old one with my Windchill issues.....

B

BrianMartin

13-Aquamarine

So you're on board with WF5 finally... good. Once you get to Creo 1.0 (Creo Parametric), I think you'll feel better. The pains you're having with WF5 ease up a little in Creo 1.0 thanks to the Quick Access Toolbar.

And yes, the ALT key doesn't always work... but imagine that for the first 3-4 months, most of our users didn't even know about the ALT key. You're getting the benefit of our struggles in that respect.

Also... hit the ALT key and notice the letters underneath the tabs and commands. These are a type of keyboard shortcut. Tapping the ALT key brings up the letters... then pressing those letters on the keyboard activates the shortcut. It's almost like a built-in mapkey system. In my personal experience, this ALT/Hotkey combination gets a little hung up sometimes (like it fails to activate properly). But when it's working, if you practice using it, you can build up some serious speed. You can nearly skip the ribbon altogether if you use the hotkeys frequently because you start to memorize them.

Try it out and see if it buys you anything.

Take care...

-Brian

K

KevinBradberry

1-Visitor

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but in general it seems that users' anger with PTC is in direct correaltion with how many years they have been using the software. I've seen the same feeling from users of different softwares. See Iain's comments about Excel for instance.

I know that some are immediately going to reject a psychological view on this issue, but it is true that some people are reluctant to change. This is said to be the case because with change comes a period of a loss of control which is, duh, undersirable. When a person becomes an expert software user it becomes very satifsying and when the software changes their expertise takes a hit until they learn the "new way". If in any situtation you find yourself hating the "new way" it might be because you have become set in your ways.

Forgive my lack of clarity in this view. This is just an idea I'm working on as I type this post. I'll bet that users new to CAD enjoy PTC software and don't see anything wrong with it. This sounds obvious I know. Now, look at it in reverse. If you embrace change and adopt the acceptance that a new user has with the software, then new releases don't have to be terribly upsetting. However, this may not be the case at all--we would need new users to chime in and rate their experience with the software in order to know. Maybe new users' opinions are how PTC makes its improvements , that would definitely make the experts angry.

If you were to only ask the experts how to improve the software it would look & operate like an ancient version of Pro/E, just with all the bugs worked out. I for one would hate this. I used 2000i and was floored with how alien the software felt with it's countless drop down menus embedded within drop down menus. It was a carpal tunnel nightmare. I think I'm in the minority--I'm a user (of 4.5 years) that is satisfied with the changes PTC makes to Pro/E. However, like most, I have a list of software improvements that I can't believe have yet to be attended to.

Regards,

Kevin B.

G

GrahameWard

1-Visitor

It's true that some people are reluctant to change. That's true of all of us to some extent. When we encounter something new, we try to make sense of it by searching the data banks of our brain for previous experiences with which we can compare it. So we're all conservatives, neurologically speaking.

So when I encounter something new I try to remember this and reserve judgement until I have made a more thorough examination.

And Creo's drawing ribbon still sucks.

K

KevinBradberry

1-Visitor

That's a sound strategy to reserve judgement. If will definitely become harder as one gets older. With age our personal data banks grow larger and provide more memories in which to compare current experience with. This creates more opportunities for current experiences to not be palatable because we see the old ways, the ones we got comfortable with, as being better.

With Creo, solving failures has become much quicker.

Patriot_1776

22-Sapphire II

Ok, here goes KevinB:

The only one I've included that is newish, is the "coiled_spiral". These parts were ALL made from a single tragecctory, except for the very ends of "andys_coil. Perhaps you can tell me how I got the trajectory (itself) of the "coiled_spiral" to double back on itself 4 times without failing?

Have fun!

Remember: Age and treachery (aka: Knowledge) will always trump youth and exuberace.

6_andys_coil-stp.zip

2_Copy-of-3rd_curve-stp.zip

4_spira_wave_spring4-stp.zip

3_coilspring-stp.zip

1_spira_wave_spring3-stp.zip

5_coiled_spiral-01-stp.zip

K

KevinBradberry

1-Visitor

Well, cratchedy Frank of 47 birthdays with 15 years of Pro/E, 10 years of AutoCAD, and some Wavefront, you've taken this completely off topic. This discussion has never been about my skill being greater than yours.

However, I would enjoy looking at these files. I'll give an honest try at explaining them or recreating them--I'm sure I'll learn something in the process--and then if I fail I hope that your ego has been massaged to the point that you feel better. This is where I'll insert a smiley face so that I can display my good humor .

Remember: Perspective defines reality. Despite age one can change their perspective.

Patriot_1776

22-Sapphire II

Hey, that's crOtchety. Just bustin' yer ballz kiddo. But, as a point, don't quickly dismiss us "Olde Guys" so quickly. I always looked to my elders to learn. One guy I particularly admired (sadly no longer with us) was in his late 60's when I knew him in my early 30's. He was one of the sharpest Engineers I've ever worked with, and was always eager to learn new things (Ansys) at his age, yet had a wealth of skills, knowledge, and experience no younger Engineer could match. It's easy to dismiss "resistant to stupid changes" as "resistant to ALL change. After many years on the system, if I truly felt it was a step up, I'd say so. Sadly, not.

I'm challenging you to prove that the new way is better, and that these new ghastly interfaces "teach" you more.

Hey, I'll be the first to say new motorcycles, cars, and audio/video products are better, because they truly ARE better, not just new thus better.

Enjoy 'em with a caveat: Some of these techniques I will not divulge here, but via e-mail with the proviso that they stay with you. Some, well, I'm gonna keep as "trade secrets" as I one day plan to do more teahing and consulting.

Reality defines reality. Perspective is for Architectural dwgs!

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