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CM101-Visitor
1-Visitor
August 19, 2010
Question

WF5 GUI.......Like? Love? Hate? Indifferent?

  • August 19, 2010
  • 30 replies
  • 62251 views

I didn't see that there was a way to start a poll here, so here's an informal one. Here's scoring:

5 = Love

4 = Like

3 = Indifferent

2 = Dislike

1 = Hate

 

Please feel free to be specific if you want to describe things, good or bad

 

I'll wait to post my feelings.........

 

Post up!

    30 replies

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    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    January 24, 2012

    Fetid dingo's kidneys? After struggling with it more, I'd be more apt to say "rotting elephant's bollocks".

    The ribbon tabs are KILLING me. I keep clicking on things and then having to remember, "Oh Gee, I wonder what tab THAT command is under?". Plus, the wasted real estate up at the top of the screen is absurd. Most of these tabs use less than HALF the space allocated for the ribbon, PLUS you still have the menu on the top. what a waste of space. And minimizing the ribbon simply means that the 3 or 4 line status bar is now covered up when the ribbon comes to the front.

    And, one nice thing you USED to be able to do when editing a large set of dwg notes, was the ability to just click in the field of the dwg to have the notes on the dwg sheet update to what the editor had to check for clearance with views. This is now gone. You click in the field of the dwg, and it wipes out ALL your changes. So now, you have to keep hitting "Ok" and getting out of the editor, and back in. Before you could do it on the fly. Totally maddening.

    I guarantee, if PTC hired any of us experienced users to redefine the GUI (Grotesque User Interface), almost EVERYONE would like it. New AND old users.

    G
    GrahameWard1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    January 24, 2012

    Those tabs make we want to throw things. And for this reason in particular:

    For example, right mouse button on a view brings up certain options, but those options are not always available if you are on the "wrong" tab. This would be ok if RMB brought different tab context options for different tabs, but it doesn't. See the attached PDFs. I can right click on a view and create a projected view off of it without going to the ribbon, but only if I am in the Layout tab. But .... it's not like there are other possible RMB functions that you might want while selecting a view with, say, the Sketch Tab selected. If I am in Sketch Tab, then I am not going to accidentally sketch a line by RMB on the view.

    Similar things occur with other mouse selection functions. I can select and move a dimension, but only with the Annotate Tab on. If selecting that dimension produced a different and undesirable result with a different tab on then I could see why it should only be selectable in the Annotate Tab. But it doesn't!

    Does what I'm saying make sense to anyone else? There are other situations where this is even more egregious, but I can't recall them off the top of my head. Next time I encounter one, I will post it here.

    What infuriates me about this kind of stuff is the lack of logic inherent in it. I expect ProE to be an instrument. It should make sense. It's like if I had an old fashioned circle guide for the drawing board that had circles .25", .5", .75" etc, but the .625" circle guide was stuck between the 4 and 5 inch circles.

    B
    BrianMartin13-Aquamarine
    13-Aquamarine
    January 24, 2012

    Hi Grahame...

    Yes, yes... I feel your frustration! What PTC was trying to do was to give you "tab context" operations on your right mouse button. That's why when you're on the Annotate tab, you have things like "Custom Symbol" on your RMB. That would be the appropriate tab to be able to drop a new symbol, right?

    I agree they missed the goal... wide and to the left ($&#%$^&**!@ Billy Cundiff !! ). Sorry, Ravens reference.

    Anyway as I was saying... they missed the goal a little but that's what they were going for. However, there is a bit of hope for you. Read the response I sent to Frank below. AND remember the ALT trick!! You can move a view, dimensions, notes, or symbols from ANY TAB if you hold the ALT key. Hold ALT and you'll be able to pick a dimension and move it no matter what tab is active.

    Also... notice when you hit ALT, letters will pop up underneath all the tabs. These are hotkeys. Try using some of them to regain lost speed. I know its a tough slog to get through the first week or so... but really if you push through it you should be able to recover.

    Take care..

    -Brian

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    January 31, 2012

    Now that I finished the dwgs of the models that another did in Creo, I've switched back to WF4 to get my work done. Things that should have taken maybe a day or 2 at most, took a week. This is not what I call progress or an "enhancement".

    Thanks Brian for you advice, and I tried the "ALT trick, but it only works on maybe 1/2 the functions. This ribbon is completely maddening, frustrating, and is costing me time. I think the "dingoes kidneys" or "elephant bollocks" references are pretty apt. Oh, and where the he77 is the "break dimension extension line" command? Oh, wait, there it is, "intuitively" (sarcasm intended) buried NOT in the annotation tab, but in the sketch tab......... Nice.

    I'm going to do as much as I can in WF4 from now on, completely eschewing Creo, and hopefully, things will get better in the next release. As I've mentioned, if I was an independent company, and it was my money, I'd stick with WF4 and Intralink and actually increase productivity.

    Arghh!!!!!!!!

    K
    KevinBradberry1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    January 31, 2012

    "BREAK" tool is circled in red.

    break_dims.PNG

    What did you find in the Sketch tab that would break extension lines?

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    January 31, 2012

    Ok, I see it now. Thanks. Makes it a little easier, but icons still suck. I'm still going to stay on WF4 since in my professional opinion it's much better.

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    February 1, 2012

    Icons are pretty much completely meaningless to me. Words can only be interpreted one way, and with as much real estate as the stupid ribbon wastes, there's room for a dictionary full of buttons with real words.

    Nobod

    K
    KevinBradberry1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    February 1, 2012

    I know you want the ribbon gone, but if you have to use it then would you like it more if there were no icons?

    no_icons.PNG

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    February 1, 2012

    That would be better, but the tabs are still a complete disaster. As I said, I'm going to stick with WF4 until they fix this or I'm FORCED to switch.

    One thing nobody mentioned, is that I'm sure a huge driver for icons as opposed to words is that they don't have to write the code for every language, making threm more $$.

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    February 9, 2012

    Well, been on it for a while now on my one project. I changed the icons to all text......and I still hate the ribbon with a loathing that has to be seen to be beliieved. I believe I'm to the point where, after all this time, I should be getting it, but I still find it maddening. That my mapkeys no longer work is just that much more of an issue. I'll stick with my initial assessment of absolutely hating it. I'll also be staying on WF4 until they either fix the issues, or I'm directed to use it. I'm simply wasting too much time trying to get things done. It is DEFINATELY slowing me and the other users down.

    J
    J1SRC8-Gravel
    8-Gravel
    February 15, 2012

    For the past couple weeks I have been listening in to your posts (Frank). I too have been struggling with drawings in WF5. WF4 was very comfortable for me. WF5 not so much. Mostly to do with the ribbon in drawing mode. But being the stubborn person that I am I wanted to keep trying. What I found is that I didn't want to migrate to Creo because I new that the ribbon was used throughout the UI and I just knew it was going to be flustrating and I didn't have the time to deal with it. So for the past 6-8 months I have delt with WF5, until I read the reply from Raphael. So I decided to compare both side by side. What I dicovered is that Raphael is correct that most of the WF5 irritations appear to have been taken care of. Accept the one that bothers me (I think Frank would agree) the most. The fact that you have to be in an active tab. But at least its customizable.

    So...this is what I found. This only works in Creo not WF5. (this takes a some doing)

    If you want to have full context under one roof (or Tab) you have to uncheck all of the default tabs and create a single "custom" tab of your own and put all that you want in that tab.

    For drawing mode I created a tab named "Drawing".

    In the Drawing tab I added the following "groups".

    Edit View Insert Sketch Table Format Analysis Info Applications Tools Help

    (For those of you who are not familiar with this lineup see WF4)

    Then go through each group and add the same menu picks as WF4. (caution very time consumming)

    For example: Edit --> "Copy" "Cut" "Paste" "Paste Special" ect, ect. Leaving out what you don't use. Also be aware that a few of the icons don't exist any more and some have changed their picture. Particulalry the close icon. Its no longer a red "X". Don't know why you would do this but be forwarned.

    Now you have one Tab populated with all of the commands grouped together similar to WF4. This makes a mess of the Tab. So while in ribbon editting mode you drag an icon down over the corresponding group name in the ribbon it places the icon in a sub-group called "overflow". To keep my tab from looking cluttered I pulled all but one or two icons from each group into the overflow. This way all you see in the ribbon is one or two major icons from each group. Whats nice about the overflow is that it behaves like a menu pulldown. The down side is that you still have to pick the down arrow to get it to expand. It would be nice if all you had to do is hover over it.

    This is about as close as I could get Creo to simulate WF4 pull down UI. Its not perfect but it does make the tab context sensitivity thing go away. You should be able to pick any object in your drawing at any time just like WF4. At least thats how its working on mine. If only I could customize the RMB menus I would be much happier.

    With that being said I dumped WF5 and will now work in Creo and I think Frank would be happier with Creo also. I still don't like the ribbon thing very much but there are some other new perks with Creo in other areas. I also tweeked the ribbon for modeling in the same way. So in essence I don' t use the ribbon at all. Hopefully Creo 2.0 will give us the ability to choose if we what a ribbon or pull down menu. Its a step in the right direction from WF5. Still not as smooth WF4 or WF2 for that matter.

    My comment to Raphael on what would make the Creo UI better would be:

    1) Let the user decide if they want a ribbon interface or a drop down interface.

    2) Just give us areas around the window and let the user decide where to put each icon.

    3) The quick access toolbar can go away.

    4) The ability to modify the RMB menus would be nice.

    If we absolutly have to have the ribbon:

    1)Have the icons and groups open with a hover event instead of a pick.

    2)Give us the ability to adjust the height of the ribbon, its too tall.

    3)Get ride of the tab context thing. It should just be up there and when the mouse hovers over each tab it flies opens.

    Hopefully this helps ease your pain...Frank.

    Reguards...Randy

    K
    KevinBradberry1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    February 15, 2012

    Great post, Randy. Thanks for taking the time for this evaluation.

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    February 16, 2012

    I'm all for customization, BUT......why shoud we be burdened with having to learn how to program and customize something that should ALREADY BE user-friendly????? Some customization is great, but I don't want to have to waste valuable time I COULD use in getting actual work done (making my boss more happy) instead of re-writing PTC's poor GUI. If it's better, great. If it's better only after I spend 80 hours "reprogramming" it == FAIL.

    J
    JonathanHodgson13-Aquamarine
    13-Aquamarine
    February 16, 2012

    Agreed, 

     

    We've just upgraded from AutoCAD LT 2002 (it did everything we wanted, but didn't play well with 64 bit Windows) to LT 2012. We then spent a considerable amount of time working out how to make it as good as the old version was, and how to re-write our custom toolbuttons to work in 2012.

     

    On the plus side, the Layer pull-down now has more visible rows, which is good!

    J
    J1SRC8-Gravel
    8-Gravel
    February 19, 2012

    Hi Raphael,

    Previous versions always had a main menu at the top for commands and a customizable area below. In Creo the main menu is not there anymore and the ribbon takes the place of the customizable area. I noticed in Creo if you remove a command from the ribbon there isn't a way to access it unless you reenter the ribbon customization and add it back in. Is this intended functionality or is there anouther way that I missed?

    Thanks...Randy

    J
    J1SRC8-Gravel
    8-Gravel
    February 21, 2012

    Jakub & All,

    In the last version of the UI file that I posted I picked the wrong "Offset" icon by mistake. I corrected the UI file and reposted.

    http://communities.ptc.com/docs/DOC-2561

    Thanks Jakub.

    Let me know if you find anything else...Randy

    R
    redav1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    February 22, 2012

    I have yet to find anything I like about the new GUI, especially in the drawing mode.

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    February 23, 2012

    .....exactly the reason I've decided to stay on WF4 Greg..... I'm losing far too much time fighting the ribbon to make it worthwhile for me. If I was going to work that slow......I might as well be on Solidworks.....

    B
    BrianMartin13-Aquamarine
    13-Aquamarine
    February 23, 2012

    Wow .. look at this thread... nearly 15,000 views. That's more than everything I've written since I started posting combined.

     

    This is going to end up as one of the most popular topics. For better or worse, this thread really digs into problems with the interface. Hopefully it leads to improvements and a more robust, customizable user interface.

     

    Nothing additional to add... just noticing how many hits this gets... nice work.

    Patriot_1776
    Patriot_177622-Sapphire II
    22-Sapphire II
    April 27, 2012

    Had to use it again recently. Hate it ever worse the more I use it. I keep clicking on things at the dwg level, only to then have to go back and forth to the tabs to hopefully find the one that LETS me do what I need.

    Know what's funny? After being laid off for 10+ months twice in my career, going back to other versions was very easy, this last time to WF4. Now, I find it impossible to be productive on Creo, no matter what I do, and we had training! Everything takes anywhere from twice to 10 times as long to do, even the simplest things. I can't find anything, can't make it work when I do find it. The menu mapper doesn't work. The only saving grace is that for the most part I can stay on WF4 until I have to deal with a file someone created or modified in Creo. Then productivity slows to a crawl, and my BP goes thru the roof.

    B
    BrianMartin13-Aquamarine
    13-Aquamarine
    April 27, 2012

    You're still using WF5, right Frank... (Creo Elements Pro/5)?

    When you get to Creo 1.0, I'll give you my User Interface file. I've tried to make it mimic the functionality of earlier Wildfire releases as a way to ease people into the new system. Maybe it would help you get back to productive work faster. It's useless for Wildfire 5... but for Creo Parametrc 1.0, it should help.

    Take care and have a good weekend. Don't let that blood pressure spike too much!

    D
    DanMcCaherty1-Visitor
    1-Visitor
    April 27, 2012

    I've been a Pro/E user since the mid 90's I guess (can't remember which release we started on but I know it was single digits). Been using WF5 for about two years. Occasionally I have to go back to WF4 and that's never a good experience. I'd give WF5 a high 4 on your scale, Frank. I've poked around a bit at early builds on Creo 2 and I was very unproductive but I'm sure that with a little more stick time, it will be fine.

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