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ptc-5936191-Visitor
1-Visitor
October 28, 2011
Question

WF5 ribbon

  • October 28, 2011
  • 28 replies
  • 10858 views
Friday question,



After sending this question below - and receiving many constructive
replies BTW, no one has had a good word to say about WF5 ribbon
interface especially for drawings. If this is the case, why the heck do
we (the users) have to put up with the PTC spin? Loss of productivity,
hatred of something unfamiliar or am I just getting the negatives -
what's your take on this unpopular decision?



Richard A. Black

Lead Design Engineer

Eaton Corporation

440 Murray Hill Road

Southern Pines

NC 28387 USA



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davehaigh13-Aquamarine
13-Aquamarine
November 1, 2011
There is a similar thread on the system admin mail list. The focus of that thread is how do you create standard company menus for the ribbon interface in Creo 1.0. Even though the ribbon interface is better in Creo 1.0 it still isn't as flexible as it should be.

I posted this response:
===
Last April I was at the Creo beta event and got to play with the software.
The issue of standard company mapkeys/menus was one of the issues I brought up with the developers.
To date nothing has change in this regard.

There's two basic problem as I see it.

1. You cannot add menus to the file menu.

2. You cannot add menus that are available regardless of the type of active file.

For example, let's say you have a mapkey that creates a new drawing based on a drawing template. Logically I would add a pick to create a new file, to the file menu and it would be available regardless of the mode you are currently in.

Plotting is another example. I don't create a plotting mapkey for every printer we have, however I do create plotting mapkeys for various types of output and where I want it. For example if you want to output a jpg, by default it will end up in your PDMLink workspace, I have a mapkey that puts it in the plot files directory. The print command is under the File menu, so that seems a logical place for my mapkeys. Once again you want these to be available regardless of the mode you are in.

Creo 1.0 doesn't allow you to add anything to the file menu. Also everything you add to the ribbons is dependent on the mode you are currently in. So a mapkey/menu can't work for both a part and an assembly. Which means you can't have a single consistent pick that loads a model tree config file to change the columns displayed in the model tree.

I applaud PTC effort to reduce the need for users to create their own mapkeys/menus. However let's face it, no matter how easy you make some tasks, there are going to be things for which a user needs or wants a mapkey, and they would like a consistent location to access it in the menus or ribbions.

David Haigh
D
DamianCastillo1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 1, 2011

Tony,


You actually know people who don't use "Intent Manager"? WOW!


I have been using it so long, I forgot it was an option. 🙂


You mentioned that PTC should fully bake this stuff before releasing it. Well, Creo 1.0 still has some major baggage from Pro/E 2001 that PTC needs to fix. The old "Menu Manager" is still alive and well in Creo 1.0, which I find unacceptable. I created a post about it in the PTC Community forums which I am starting to use more and more. I like the options and the community features much better than what Pro/User provides. sorry. 😞


Here is a link to that post I created.


http://communities.ptc.com/blogs/Proximo/2011/10/27/two-things-that-worry-me-about-creo-10


In Reply to Anthony DelNegro, P.E.:


Well said, Damian. I agree, though I haven't had the pleasure (lol) of
using the ribbon in Pro/E or Creo as yet. I'm not sure I initially
liked the ribbon in Office 07, but I don't find any issues with it now.
I would hope that the programmers are focused on easier to use UI's,
which it sounds like, since the latest implementation seems better.
It's just a shame that it wasn't that good out of the box. PTC needs to
fully bake this stuff before releasing it, but that is typical PTC.



I still can't believe there are people not using intent manager. I
turned that on, on day one and haven't turned it off since. Not sure
how to function without it. In my opinion it's way faster, but I guess
if it's not for you, be thankful there is an 'off' button.



Tony
G
GavinBRumble10-Marble
10-Marble
November 1, 2011
I have used the WF5 ribbon on occasion and (mostly because it IS only on
occasion) I find it irritating. If I used it every day I would probably
find it infuriating. To me, the Ribbon tabs in MS Office (which I have been
using for 3 years) present a mash up of features that someone ELSE, ie, the
developers, thought should go together in a "typical" editing session. I
would rather they were in functional menu structures where you always knew
how to find them. They also take up a whole lot of screen real estate with
the large icons COMBINED with the command name which you are not allowed to
customize. Call me regressive, but leave ALL the commands in a logical menu
structure and then give me an icon toolbar which I can (and do) customize to
include the commands (or mapkeys) that I use a LOT (this addresses the
Productivity argument). Those (icons) you use a LOT are going to be
instantly recognizable...for the rest, the icons are completely useless
(IMHO). Quick, anyone, tell me what this icon in Word/Outlook does . Or
this one in WF5 . By contrast, everyone knows what these are... (all
from the customizable Toolbar). My point is, you can't memorize something
you don't use, or only use once in a blue moon, so why clutter up the sight
lines with it?



Gavin B. Rumble, PE

Solid Engineering

336-224-2312


P
pfariello1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 1, 2011
I thought I was the last one not to use intent manager. The intent manager on/off option goes away with WF5 so I finally took the time to learn to use it for when IT has time to move us past WF3. I use both ways now but for some sketches, especially editing sketch constraints, it is faster with it off.

Patrick Fariello
J
JonathanHodgson13-Aquamarine
13-Aquamarine
November 1, 2011
So far we've stuck with WF4, but we *have* been upgraded to Office 2007.



I'm trying not to be a reactionary Luddite, but my general impression of
the Ribbon is that it's increased the number of mouse clicks to do a
task - particularly if you include the extra click to return to the
'Home' tab after you've done it.



For example, "Tools -> Goal Seek" (two clicks or Alt-T-G) is now "Data
-> What-If Analysis -> Goal Seek" (Alt-A-W-G), and "File -> Print
Preview" (Alt-F-V I think) is now "Funny thing in the corner -> Print ->
Print Preview" (with a delay while you wait for the fly-out), and the
key sequence (after some puzzling) now seems to be Alt-F-W-V (not sure
what the W stands for).



The loss of screen space is another significant point - with a
widespread move to widescreen monitors, and netbooks with lower vertical
res (not so relevant for CAD, admittedly) the top of the screen is not
the part that should be sacrificed, IMHO...



All-in-all, my experience with Office isn't making me rush to WF5 - in
any case, we'll probably wait for Creo 1 or later to get the second
version of the Pro/E ribbon.



Jonathan


D
DamianCastillo1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 1, 2011

Gavin,


On Creo 1.0, you can add and remove icons, show them with or without text, small or large icon and even create your own tabs. I think there should be enough flexibility there to help you find a happy place. 🙂


You can also have the Ribbon autohide so it's not taking up screen space until you are ready to access it. 🙂



In Reply to Gavin Rumble:


I have used the WF5 ribbon on occasion and (mostly because it IS only on
occasion) I find it irritating. If I used it every day I would probably
find it infuriating. To me, the Ribbon tabs in MS Office (which I have been
using for 3 years) present a mash up of features that someone ELSE, ie, the
developers, thought should go together in a "typical" editing session. I
would rather they were in functional menu structures where you always knew
how to find them. They also take up a whole lot of screen real estate with
the large icons COMBINED with the command name which you are not allowed to
customize. Call me regressive, but leave ALL the commands in a logical menu
structure and then give me an icon toolbar which I can (and do) customize to
include the commands (or mapkeys) that I use a LOT (this addresses the
Productivity argument). Those (icons) you use a LOT are going to be
instantly recognizable...for the rest, the icons are completely useless
(IMHO). Quick, anyone, tell me what this icon in Word/Outlook does . Or
this one in WF5 . By contrast, everyone knows what these are... (all
from the customizable Toolbar). My point is, you can't memorize something
you don't use, or only use once in a blue moon, so why clutter up the sight
lines with it?



Gavin B. Rumble, PE

Solid Engineering

336-224-2312


D
DamianCastillo1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 1, 2011

Patrick,


If you want to turn any constraint or assumption off, you can right click the mouse. it will toggle from locking, to ingnore and back to intent.


Just saying. 🙂



In Reply to Patrick Fariello:


I thought I was the last one not to use intent manager. The intent manager on/off option goes away with WF5 so I finally took the time to learn to use it for when IT has time to move us past WF3. I use both ways now but for some sketches, especially editing sketch constraints, it is faster with it off.

Patrick Fariello
A
A.DelNegro1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 1, 2011
Patrick,

I would suspect that the IM is quicker once you know it but I've been
using it so long that I find the old method very clunky. I would be
interested in seeing the situation you speak of. I think I get probably
80% of the correct constraints without having to enter the constraint
dialog...


P
ptc-19327451-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 2, 2011
After thinking about this again for a couple of days, and having to do a
series of drawings in WF5, I think that the ribbon is not 'in your face'
enough.



When working on drawings, and especially on a larger screen, I find
myself focusing entirely on the drawing sheet and the mouse pointer and
ignoring all of the icons, tabs, ribbons round the edges of my view.
Only when the mouse clicks act in a way I don't expect do I look up to
see what ribbon tab I am in.



Maybe of the ribbons for each functional task was a different shape, or
color, or whatever... I would better notice that what I am trying to do
is not available in the current tab.



But again I take issue with this idea that we are going back to an
action-object workflow(classic pre-WF pro-e workflow) as opposed to an
object-action workflow (the new hotness as of WF1 or so).





Christopher F. Gosnell



FPD Company

124 Hidden Valley Road

McMurray, PA 15317
T
TimKnier1-Visitor
1-Visitor
November 2, 2011
I don't know about the "in your face" enough. I think there has to be better access to the tabs of the ribbon. PTC seems to have focused on reduced mouse movement and with all of the menu selections available with the right mouse button click they've done a great job. However, while working in drawings on WF5 there has been countless times when I've been in one ribbon and needed to do something only available in another ribbon. So I have to go back up and select the correct ribbon a lot. I know you can do the Alt button but my left hand likes not having to do anything. So my suggestion would be to make the ribbon tabs available to select in the right mouse button menu pop ups.

Tim Knier
QG Product & Support Engineering
QuadTech
A Subsidiary of Quad/Graphics
Sussex, Wisconsin
414-566-7439 phone
-<">mailto:->
www.quadtechworld.com<">http://www.quadtechworld.com>
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